Job Discussion Forums

[Sugar Magnolia]

If anyone is interested in a relatively good job in a reputable Shanghai university beginning in 2 weeks or so, let me know.

The pay isn't the best, but after taxes and rent etc.. you should probably have around 8k a month to spend, which is plenty. But, you will work for it. 16, 90 minute, classes a week. Overtime might be available.

Basically, 8 - 5, M to Th. and Friday mornings till 11.

[TexasHighway]

A relatively good job in a reputable university teaching 16, 90 minute periods a week? You got to be kidding! Most university jobs in Shanghai only require 12-16, 45 minute periods a week. Also, universities which have good reputations among the Chinese are often notorious in their shabby treatment of FTs. This offer is absolutely atrocious, by far the worst I have ever seen in my many years in Shanghai!

[TangWolun]

G'day

I've lived half of my life teaching in Shanghai for the past 17 years and am now at an international Highschool. I agree with Texas Highway - I wouldn't touch this job for even double the base salary - yes, they are kidding!

Lao Tang

[Sugar Magnolia]

I'm just trying to help a friend. But, if you really think about it it isn't that bad if all you teach is Oral English. I assume working at an International school entails teaching "real" classes and know that some people make more at universities in Shanghai teaching specialty classes, such as Accounting etc...

Since I started this topic, I am going to change the focus of the discussion for those who would like to participate - What is an appropriate salary for an Oral English facilitator in Shanghai?

To begin, I know from personal experience that the language mills "in the city", such as Wall St. and Web, used to pay 14k - 15k per month. Not too long ago someone posted an article from the Shanghai Daily that seemed to indicate that the government passed a "law" that said FT salaries couldn't be higher than 15k in Shanghai.

It seems to me that a lot of people want to live in Shanghai, not in the Songjiang area of Shanghai or some other "part of town" 1 to 2 hours away from the action. I think our friend Struelle knows what I'm typing about.

Either way, when I first moved to Shanghai, 3 years ago, I worked at Wall St. and was paid 14k with the possibility of earning 15k after monthly bonuses. I worked in the Jin Mao Tower and lived near People's Square. My apartment was a 5 minute walk from the Xinzha Lu, Line 1, subway station. Last year Line 8 opened nearby as well. From my window I could see all of the big buildings in Liujiazui and literally watched the newer World Financial Center be built and completed. I just wish I had a balcony. Other, nicer, buildings had balconies and were charging 4k or more. My rent was 3k. I'm sure I could have found something less expensive, but not quite as convenient or smaller. Granted, my apartment wasn't that big though, but, it was perfect for 1 person, except for the kitchen.

I know someone who lives near Zapata's and all the action on Hengshan Lu. His rent is 2.5k, but he doesn't have hot water at this time and has to walk up to the 4th floor. I enjoyed taking the elevator to my 11th floor abode and other conveniences of my "serviced building." If I needed anything, maintenance, water or even a taxi, I simply called the Front Desk. I guess you get what you pay for.

Back to the topic - assuming you really want to live in Shanghai and are willing to work, someone could make 15k facilitating English conversations at a training center like Wall St. or Web. But, working at places such as those mentioned, as well as others, you would have to dress nicely, work most nights and at least 1 weekend day. I won't even go into English Corner. Besides that, you wouldn't get summers off or almost 2 months during the winter break.

Assuming you are new to Shanghai and work at a "large" training center, if you want a weekend day off you will probably not be off 2 days in a row. When I worked at Wall St. I had Tues. and Wed. off. I could have had a weekend day off if I wanted, but, I prefered 2 days in a row. 3 other teachers who had been there for a few years did have 2 days off in a row, but still worked either Sat. or Sun.

I also know for a fact that at smaller training centers, such as NDI/Only English, most people are off 2 days in a row, but still work at least 1 weekend day. Awhile back someone wrote a defense of NDI/Only. I know who he is and can say he was correct; except for the wench Rachel, the job wasn't bad. His situation was different because the other facilitators didn't want to work the morning shift. But, that's an aside.

My Father once told me that I tend to go off on tangents. Let's get back to the topic - an appropriate salary for Oral English facilitators in Shanghai as well as the job mentioned in my original post. I made a mistake, it is 15, 90 minute classes and forgot to mention that the salary is 13k.

Let's do the math -

Using Web as a model, you would be in class 25 "real" hours a week (Wall St. = 30). 15k/100 = 150 an hour.

The "in the city" university I mentioned requires 22.5 hours in class. 13k/90 = 144.44 per hour.

Obviously, the training centers pay a bit more, but, which would you prefer?

Would you prefer to work nights, at least 1 weekend day in which you will probably be required to be in the center before 11am (if you like the nightlife you can't really imbibe), have shorter vacations (maybe 5 days at National Day etc..), work during the summer and Spring Festival holidays, and dress nicely, maybe even have to wear a tie or the alternative?

The alternative does pay 5 rmb less per hour, but, you could wear shorts and a t-shirt or even jeans to class, have your nights and weekends free, longer vacations (albeit not receiving full salary, but, who cares about the money) and most importantly freedom in the classroom.

Believe me, most university students don't mind if you let the class out 5, 10, 15 and sometimes even 20 minutes early if it is a 90 minute class. 10 minutes is my limit, though. Besides that, you can take a 5 or 10 minute break. In addition, most of the university classes I have taught have never started on-time. 5 minutes here, 5 minutes there = more than 5 rmb.

150/60 = 2.5 per minute. 5 x 2.5 = 12.5. So, in actuality, the university job pays more.

Of course, you are still there and not somewhere else, unless it is the last class of the day and you're trying to get to the subway before rush hour!

If you have ever worked in a training center, you know that the people will complain if you arrive late and the boss will notice if you end early. Freedom prevails.

I must admit, I once held the university job described. I will also admit that I felt that I was being exploited after learning that the FT's who taught Accounting etc... were making 18k. I would leave the office to go to class while they chatted about the weather and return 90 minutes later to discover that they were now talking about the price of tea in China. It really got my goat.

On the other hand, I was paid extra to teach a specialty class and realize that it does require a lot more preparation and can understand the pay differential.

Either way, I don't work there anymore. I'm happy in another province with my 10, 90 minute classes a week, free apartment and around 10k to spend. Except for this apartment, I do not receive any holiday pay whatsoever.

Typing about money, how much do you really need to earn in Shanghai?

My situation was like this -

13k - taxes = 12k. 12k - rent, utilities (I like AC and heat), transportation (I always took a 15/20 minute taxi ride in the morning) = 8k to spend.

If you live frugally, you could easily save at least 4k a month, which means that you spend 1k a week on food and entertainment. Some people may think that spending 1k a week on food etc... is a lot, but, what can I type - I enjoyed calling Jim at Mealbay. www.mealbay.com.cn

Keep in mind that Shanghai is a buyers market and that schools well-known in China probably will try to pay less because they consider it to be a "privilege" to work for them. All I know is, when I tell people that I once taught at x university in Nanjing, no one has a clue; when I tell them that I taught at x university in Shanghai, they know.

What do you think is an appropriate salary for an Oral English facilitator in Shanghai?

[Voldermort]

[Sugar Magnolia]

I love you too Voldermort.

I know it takes time to prepare and get the kids talking, but if you can honestly tell me that you have more than 8k a month to spend in Sichuan, then I'll admit that my "biography" was wrong.

My first university job in Nanjing paid 4,600 for 14, 45 minute classes a week. That was 5 years ago and things have changed. It seems to me that most universities now require 16 or maybe even 18 classes.

I admit, the job isn't the best, but, when you compare it to working in a Shanghai training center, it is better.

Besides that, how can anyone "teach" Oral English? They way I see it, our job is to get them talking.

Also, what can you share about "teaching"/living in Shanghai?

[Sugar Magnolia]

"Most of us here on this forum have come over to teach English; not to be demoted to some dancing monkey wearing a clown suit to be stood in front of a class for "Oral English". "

I think these words are key. Little did you know what you got yourself into when you applied for an "Oral English Teacher" position. I guess you and many others thought you would be "teaching" grammar etc...

Again, how exactly can someone "teach" Oral English? Should I show the students how to move their mouths?

The way I see it, my/our job is to get the students talking. I didn't come here to have them sit at attention, nor penalize them for being 5 minutes late to class, not having a notebook or pen etc...

It seems to me that most university jobs are still paying 4 to 6k, especially outside of the big cities. I guess most of us are fools, but, that is another topic.

Lets do the math for a 14, 45 minute classes "job" that pays 6k. (most jobs now require more). That = 7, 90 minutes classes. 7 x 2 = 14, 90 minute classes. 6k x 2 = 12k. So the position I described, 15, 90 minute classes pays 1k more for the extra 3 hours per month. 1k/3 = 333 rmb per hour.

Of course, everyone has different priorities and some of the geritol bunch/"old hands" don't want or need the money, but, it seems to me that both positions pay around the same. But, you would have to pay rent in Shanghai, so, the job in the sticks is better, if that is what you want.

Granted, you would have more free time in a typical university job in the boonies to explore your small town or study Chinese, tai chi or whatever floats your boat. I think I saw everything in Nanjing within a month.

On the other hand, if living in a vibrant city is what you desire, this is not an atrocius offer for an Oral English facilitating position.

As for this Voldermort -

"I'm affraid to inform you that an only Oral English class is one of the most difficult classes to manage and prepare for! It takes hours of prep, hours of thinking which vocab and grammar stuctures to introduce, hours to think up suitable activites and hours to think of alternatives on the offchance the class finds the work too easy or hard. Then on top of that you have group formation and managment to contend with within the classroom."

You are a funny guy!

[TexasHighway]

Teaching 15, 90 minute classes of oral English sounds like a recipe for burnout. Also, your math doesn't make sense. You failed to note that in any standard university contract, the school provides a free apartment or a housing allowance, a Z visa, round trip airfare, domestic travel fare, etc. So if an FT accepted a job with half as many hours and half as much pay, he would still get the same basic benefits. Teaching twice as many hours as most universities require, as you suggest doing, wouldn't double the benefit package. If he needs more money, he is better off adding some private lessons at a much higher hourly rate, which is what many FTs do.

[Sugar Magnolia]

"But, you would have to pay rent in Shanghai, so, the job in the sticks is better, if that is what you want."

Another example of selective reading or perhaps senility.

As for the other "benefits" they are similar. They will reimburse full airfare, unlike most schools that offer perhaps 8k for airfare. My round-trip Delta flight cost around $2,000 USD = almost 14k rmb. Is that double?

Forgive me for not clarifying these important issues.

It is true, I have nothing better to do today. I am looking forward to visiting my old stomping grounds next week for 10 days.

As for the extra cash, I once met a guy who taught at a university in Songjiang who was paid around 6k a month, with a free apartment. He worked part-time in a training center on Sat. and Sun. for an extra 1k a week.

1k x 4 = 4k + 6k = 10k to spend. Granted, better income, but, he commuted more than 2 hours a day on the weekends to make it. He worked 6 days a week. I believe his university didn't schedule him to work Fridays.

He quit because he felt "burnt out."

I agree with you, though, Mr. TH - the job is not the best; which is why I'm happy where I am now, but, for someone new to Shanghai, it isn't bad. People do have to pay their dues.

Another topic's title is - "Do you know this university?" or something like that. If someone wants to eventually earn the "big bucks", having the Quanzhou Vocational School on your resume will not help. x university in Shanghai will.

That my cyber friend is the bottom line. FACE.

[Voldermort]

[Sugar Magnolia]

Good Morning Voldermort,

What exactly do you mean by "slightly more hours but a lighter workload"?

If my math is correct, in your last position you worked approximately 20 hours a month and were paid 350 per hour. I can believe that, but can't believe that you earned 20k this month for just a few more hours.

My math may be fuzzy, but, if what you typed is the truth, assuming 25 hours, you were paid 800 per hour to teach "only Oral English"!!

I guess that you freelance, which isn't what this topic is about. This topic is about a university job in Shanghai.

As for me, I haven't worked any hours this month because it is the summer holiday.

[Lobster]

Is this position in Song Jiang SM? If so, please IM me. Maybe I can negotiate with them.

RED