| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
|
 Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:44 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| Quote: |
few foreigners in Saudi Arabia (most of whom are laborers) get vacation pay or end of service gratuity.
but 99.9% of the foreign workers in this country work without vacation pay and in many cases vacations |
These are straightforward lies.
The Labour law states I believe that holiday pay accrues at a rate of 21 days per year initially (until 2004 it was fifteen days) as a legal minimum (contracts may increase the rate but not decrease it), and that a ticket must be provided every two years. Most labourers take the holiday every two years (often taking additional unpaid leave as well). If companies make 11 month contracts they may get rid of the obligation, but of course if they renew the contract that doesn't matter, and contracts under business visas don't come under labor law.
And of course having people work eleven months on business visas is illegal, even though it is a very common abuse.
End-of-service benefit is obligatory in all labour contracts. There are no doubt many employers that try and renege on their obligations but to suggest that 99.9% of employers do that is brazen dishonesty.
| Quote: |
| but every Saudi university or institute employing Westerners that I know of has a high turnover rate. |
You mustn't know very many then. And leaving mid-contract is very different from deciding not to renew. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Grendal
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 861
Location: Lurking in the depths of the Faisaliah Tower underground parking.
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Pegy tells me that sheiker (who is the second mentioned in Chthon's post) likes to smash his/her own window to get into his/her own apartment because he/she locked himself/herself out. The window is still broken to this day and sand is blowing into his/her house constantly. He/She may be on the highest dune for that reason!!!!
She seems to have good sources and has even provided the name of sheikher but I will not disclose it because I am not as low and conniving as shiekher.
G |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Grendal and Cthon; passing around malicious gossip regarding ex-colleagues who are not as enamored with your employer as you evidently are, is doing no favor to your company. It merely suggests they were right to leave. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chthon
Joined: 03 Jun 2009
Posts: 54
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
These are straightforward lies.
The Labour law states I believe that holiday pay accrues at a rate of 21 days per year initially (until 2004 it was fifteen days) as a legal minimum (contracts may increase the rate but not decrease it), and that a ticket must be provided every two years. Most labourers take the holiday every two years (often taking additional unpaid leave as well). |
Your being so forward not only displays your hysterics, but also makes me think that you didn't bother to read my post.
I say that because you tried to respond by talking about labor law. You must not know very much about this country...this is Saudi Arabia. Labor laws mean jack, and the overwhelming majority of foreign workers here are laborers from Asia. Those who aren't laborers often work office jobs and are from other Arab countries.
We can talk about law and we can talk about reality, and very few foreigners here receive the vacation pay or end of service gratuity they are promised. A large portion of the laborers don't receive vacations at all and often don't receive their basic salaries, which can be as low as US$80 a month.
Please do your research about human rights and workers right here before you launch into a tirade like that. What I am saying about labor practices here is known.
| Quote: |
If companies make 11 month contracts they may get rid of the obligation, but of course if they renew the contract that doesn't matter, and contracts under business visas don't come under labor law.
And of course having people work eleven months on business visas is illegal, even though it is a very common abuse. |
Yes, everything you said in this portion is, to my best knowledge, correct.
| Quote: |
| End-of-service benefit is obligatory in all labour contracts. There are no doubt many employers that try and renege on their obligations but to suggest that 99.9% of employers do that is brazen dishonesty. |
I reacted negatively to the earlier posts in this thread because I know the two posters personally and thus know without a shadow of a doubt that they were being dishonest.
You, however, don't know me and cannot read minds; thus, you have no way of knowing if I am being dishonest, simply mistaken, and or even correct. For you to charge me as being a liar immediately - without asking for any clarification or at least politely disputing my claims as Veiled Sentiments did - is not only immature but also leads me to believe that after the insults, you just don't have much substance to your posts.
| Quote: |
| You mustn't know very many then. And leaving mid-contract is very different from deciding not to renew. |
Now you're just being petty. You aren't even adding anything to the post at this point. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chthon
Joined: 03 Jun 2009
Posts: 54
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Stephen Jones wrote: |
| Grendal and Cthon; passing around malicious gossip |
It's not gossip; I am simply explaining why these guys aren't people to take information from. If someone is posting misinformation much of which constitutes slander, I may as well explain how they both got the boot and why they have the proverbial axe to grind.
| Stephen Jones wrote: |
| regarding ex-colleagues who are not as enamored with your employer as you evidently are |
Not as enamored? Did you even read my post explaining why they were fired? Or are you, without even knowing who I am, disputing my honesty in that?
| Stephen Jones wrote: |
| is doing no favor to your company. |
I don't care to do anybody favors, I just don't like to see people like that spreading misinformation out of spite.
| Stephen Jones wrote: |
| It merely suggests they were right to leave. |
They didn't leave; they were fired. Again, are you disputing my posts or not? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| You, however, don't know me and cannot read minds; thus, you have no way of knowing if I am being dishonest, simply mistaken, and or even correct |
You've missed out the other possibility, that you're batshit crazy but I don't think that is likely.
You are setting yourself up to be an expert on the Kingdom. Yet you can pretend you're 'correct' over ESB not being an obligation. Have you never read a single article in the newspaper on the topic. Haven't you even thought of checking the labor laws?
And you seem to forget you're talking about a grand total of 0.01% of workers getting their ESB. You add up the universities and schools and government institutions all of which religiously pay it (including the part proportionate to the free accommodation or accommodation allowance) and you're running into figures many times the ridiculous one you choose to bandy around.
| Quote: |
| Now you're just being petty. You aren't even adding anything to the post at this point. |
I'm not being petty in the least. I'm pointing out that your claim This is normal for English teaching operations in Saudi Arabia. I am not saying it is good, but every Saudi university or institute employing Westerners that I know of has a high turnover rate. is totally misleading; there are plenty of institutions in Saudi Arabia with a relatively low turnover rate, and far from being the norm a high turnover rate is a red flag, and people leaving in the middle of the year a large flashing red neon sign.
| Quote: |
| It's not gossip; I am simply explaining why these guys aren't people to take information from. |
What you're managing to do is to persuade those of us who know nothing of either side that you are an unreliable source. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pegycove
Joined: 07 Aug 2009
Posts: 17
Location: saudi arabia
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hi Stievie,
If you want to attack anyone attack me OK! I am the one that disclosed the information to Grendal and I am the one that has an inside source not Grendal. Why do you care you are not the party that is involved here?
It is not malicious gossip ask 12 Monkeys, but too bad he has been banned from this forum. Ask sheikher him or herself and you will get a confirmation. I see why the monkey man was banned, because you out there in cyberland can't handle the truth.
PC |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Chthon wrote: |
| Your being so forward not only displays your hysterics, but also makes me think that you didn't bother to read my post. |
Here is an example of what tends to get people banned here. Mr Jones is probably one of the least hysterical posters here... and one of the most informed on the rules of employment in Saudi. He may be a bit short at times, but one should never challenge his knowledge.
Another way to leave quickly is to attack other posters merely because you disagree with them. 12 monkeys should have learned that in his first incarnation here. Making it personal never gains anything and merely makes one look like the bad guy.
Yes, some of the negative posters might be nutters... but then so are some of the positive posters. 
VS |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Grendal
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 861
Location: Lurking in the depths of the Faisaliah Tower underground parking.
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
SJ wrote:
| Quote: |
| Grendal and Cthon; passing around malicious gossip regarding ex-colleagues who are not as enamored with your employer as you evidently are, is doing no favor to your company. It merely suggests they were right to leave. |
Dear SJ,
I would like to stand up for myself and hereby relieve Pegy from all responsibility. This is between SJ and me now. Malicious gossip is something you are all too familiar with and this suits you well I believe. What Chthon and I are brave enough to say is that there is a certain troll like person that haunts the halls of the teachers building and he doesn't speak to anyone. I am pegy's source (sorry pegy I know you wanted me kept secret) and I know the name of said TROLL, GOBLIN.
He was in the teacher�s room where the computer is for all the teachers to use. 12 Monkeys' boxes were packed and ready to go, in the teacher's room, with labels on them indicating KSU and the next post that comes on one of the locked threads here is from him, sheiker, announcing his appointment to KSU with his wife. Well I know for a fact that 12 Monkeys' wife did not get an appointment there (KSU). The monkey man and his wife did however get an offer from another university somewhere else in the KSA aka Majyk Kindom.
How�s that gossip SJ do you like it? Is it suitable for you? Will you run to the eslcafe banishment police and get me banished too? I do not have any gripe with you. So let's keep it like that.
G
Last edited by Grendal on Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
As apologist as he be and as annoyed as I get by it at times, I hafta agree SJ knows of which he speaks. Throwing down on certain posters here is not a wise choice.
NCTBA |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mia Xanthi
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 955
Location: why is my heart still in the Middle East while the rest of me isn't?
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Here is an example of what tends to get people banned here. Mr Jones is probably one of the least hysterical posters here... and one of the most informed on the rules of employment in Saudi. He may be a bit short at times, but one should never challenge his knowledge. |
Could not agree more. Mr. Jones is an informed and reliable poster, especially on the subject of labor law. He has earned the respect of those who post regularly through his knowledge and professionalism. Wish some of you would take the time and trouble to do the same. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Heck I'll throw in my two halaha:
Of all the posters who frequent this forum, Mr. Jones has, in my opinion, the most complete, wide-ranging, and accurate information about the Kingdom. True, he tends not to suffer fools gladly, but I place complete confidence in what he posts.
And, incidentally, his knowledge of the English language is equally impressive.
I want to be just like him when I grow up (Well, minus the not suffering fools gladly; I'm afraid I have been a fool far too many times myself not to have developed what may be excessive empathy.)
Regards,
John |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Grendal
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 861
Location: Lurking in the depths of the Faisaliah Tower underground parking.
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm not questioning his informativeness or his reliabilitiness. I agreeness with youz all on dat. I'm just saying that this is more than mere trivial gossip. It's the truth, but the truth always changes depending on the side you're on. My question to SJ is: which side is he on?
G |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
He likes...or rather, is undistressed (I made up a new word!) by saudi...
NCTBA |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Grendal
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 861
Location: Lurking in the depths of the Faisaliah Tower underground parking.
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well it appears Shiekher is quiet now. No posts since August 14th. Is the computer out in the teachers room Sheikher? I remember once I hid the power cord for the computer in the teacher's room and watched you try to use the computer and now I am glad for this almost at a state of euphoria. Did someone hide the power cord on you again sheiker? It's because of you sheiker that my friend the monkey man got banished and now it's payback time.
G |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
