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rigel
Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 308
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 Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:41 am Post subject: Does this happen in the KSA? |
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Hypothetical situation.
I get an offer letter, from an agency, that outlines 'the deal'. I'll be getting a certain pay rate, perks, and what-not if I only sign on the line, scan it, and send it back.
I go to the gulag and find that my real boss has other ideas. I find that what I really get is very different from 'the deal', especially pay (it's lower). I discover I've been had, the latest victim of bait-and-switch.
Does this happen over there? Is it par for the course? Is it one of those reamings the fatalists shrug their shoulders at and simply accept without protest?
Seriously. What if the contract IS different from the offer? What if I get over there, see something that doesn't jibe, and simply refuse to sign? What then? |
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desultude
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 614
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:51 am Post subject: |
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Rigel!
You have been reading too much on this board. By now you have become a complete skeptic about the Kingdom, but still seem determined to work there.
It is important to have some trust and confidence in what you are doing. I suppose it is probably even better to dismiss all of the bad vibes about the place and just go there firm in the knowledge that your experience will be different. Who the hell knows- it just might be.
But once you have yielded to all the bells and whistles, it is time to look for another place to work. Going on the board and expressing such deep reservations, and still entertaining the idea of working there does not make sense, to put it mildly. |
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rigel
Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 308
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:54 am Post subject: |
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From what I'm reading here and elsewhere, it's a simple, fair question.
Will the contract be different from the offer?
Can somebody provide a straight answer? That's all I'm looking for.
How about:
Is it common practice the contract is different from the offer?
That answer would be good enough.
I think I need to get a dental certification. Getting straight answers here is like pulling teeth. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:31 am Post subject: |
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Reasonable employers do not do this. Stick to the reasonable employers and you will be okay.
Last edited by scot47 on Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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rigel
Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 308
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:55 am Post subject: |
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Thank you, my friend. A straight answer at last.
May I send you a new keyboard to correct that space-bar issue? |
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rigel
Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 308
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| desultude wrote: |
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expressing such deep reservations, and still entertaining the idea of [working] there does not make sense, to put it mildly. |
I think somebody said that about going into outer space back in the 50s. |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:26 am Post subject: |
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I agree with desultude.
It's one thing to go to Saudi Arabia - or anywhere else, for that matter - with one's eyes open and aware of the pitfalls that do exist. It's quite another to refer to a place as a 'gulag', to assume you're going to get ripped off at every turn (by no means always or even usually the case), and still be determined to go there.
There are nasty employers in KSA who may not honour your contract. If that happens, it is not 'fatalistic' to point out the fact that in reality, there is probably very little you can do about it but pack your bags and write if off to experience. However, there are some decent employers who will treat you well. Hopefully you will work for one of the latter group. But if you are so fortunate, be aware that one way to turn them - or any Saudi - against you is a relentlessly comabative attitude.
I'm just saying is all. |
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Grendal
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 861
Location: Lurking in the depths of the Faisaliah Tower underground parking.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Whatspacebarissueproblems?Idon'thaveanyspacebarissueproblems.Regards.Grendal |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| rigel wrote: |
| From what I'm reading here and elsewhere, it's a simple, fair question. |
What you have learned is that it is not a simple question, but it is certainly a fair one.
| rigel wrote: |
| Will the contract be different from the offer? |
Maybe, but usually not.
| rigel wrote: |
| Is it common practice the contract is different from the offer? |
How does one define common?  It happens with some of the bottom feeder recruiter-based hiring. I'd say not terribly common.
| rigel wrote: |
| That answer would be good enough. |
Wasn't, was it? Since you are applying with entry level employers through recruiters, you are in the higher risk area for issues.
| rigel wrote: |
| I think I need to get a dental certification. Getting straight answers here is like pulling teeth. |
As you have been told many times this summer... all you can do is see if there are any posts here about this type of situation. (for instance, M-trading had some) Read the pros and cons here about the business visa issue and decide whether you can live with it... since most of those you are applying with only offer business visas.
Then, you hold your nose and dive in... the water may be fine... barely tolerable... or so danged hot that you immediately start planning your escape. But... you're a big boy and you've probably made mistakes before. At worst you will have a tale to tell and the most likely result is that you have spent an interesting year and added a little money to the bank account.
Just have realistic expectations... at least you won't be bored. 
VS |
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Middle East Beast
Joined: 05 Mar 2008
Posts: 836
Location: Up a tree
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| desultude wrote: |
I suppose it is probably even better to dismiss all of the bad vibes about the place and just go there firm in the knowledge that your experience will be different. Who the hell knows- it just might be.
Going on the board and expressing such deep reservations, and still entertaining the idea of working there does not make sense, to put it mildly. |
Neither does going to, of ALL places, Saudi Arabia, with blind optimism that you just could be following the yellow brick road to the Emerald City.
Read all the posts you can that offer personal experiences, subtract those that express opinion absent any evidence to support it, and make your go/no go decision.
Best of luck whatever your choice. |
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Middle East Beast
Joined: 05 Mar 2008
Posts: 836
Location: Up a tree
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
| Reasonable employers donotdo this. Stickto the reasonableemployers and you will be okay. |
And how does one go about ensuring that an employer is reasonable BEFORE going there? |
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desultude
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 614
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Middle East Beast wrote: |
| scot47 wrote: |
| Reasonable employers donotdo this. Stickto the reasonableemployers and you will be okay. |
And how does one go about ensuring that an employer is reasonable BEFORE going there? |
Just make sure it is spelled out in the contract. |
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Middle East Beast
Joined: 05 Mar 2008
Posts: 836
Location: Up a tree
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| desultude wrote: |
| Middle East Beast wrote: |
| scot47 wrote: |
| Reasonable employers donotdo this. Stickto the reasonableemployers and you will be okay. |
And how does one go about ensuring that an employer is reasonable BEFORE going there? |
Just make sure it is spelled out in the contract. |
Sounds so easy. Can't understand how anyone could be duped.
The contracts are standard-issue, not created from scratch for each employee. Oh, and the Arabic language version takes precedence if it conflicts in any way with the English version. All the best with that... |
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rio darro
Joined: 04 Dec 2008
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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[/quote]...'Then, you hold your nose and dive in... the water may be fine... barely tolerable... or so danged hot that you immediately start planning your escape. But... you're a big boy and you've probably made mistakes before. At worst you will have a tale to tell and the most likely result is that you have spent an interesting year and added a little money to the bank account.
Just have realistic expectations... at least you won't be bored...
| Quote: |
'
Hi VS!
I, as many others, have read a verible litany of counsel of yours on the K of SA threads here on Daves. Although you have never set sandaled foot (by your own frequent and honest admission) on her scorched and littered sands, you notwithstanding continue to offer advice to persons looking to get an idea of how it is here in the Kingdom before coming for the first time.
I must declare that your above response is the most circumspect and excellent counsel I've seen. I concur totally with the message itself,and admire your treatment of the OP as a foreign-language educator looking to explore new horizons- just as most of us perpetually are.
I do, however, opine that boredom is likely to be encountered-just another part of the deal that holding your nose and diving into KSA supposes. Otherwise, a very repeatable reply of a nature I wish I saw more here on ESL Cafe.
...RD
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desultude
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 614
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| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:16 am Post subject: |
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...'Then, you hold your nose and dive in... the water may be fine... barely tolerable... or so danged hot that you immediately start planning your escape. But... you're a big boy and you've probably made mistakes before. At worst you will have a tale to tell and the most likely result is that you have spent an interesting year and added a little money to the bank account.
Just have realistic expectations... at least you won't be bored...
| Quote: |
'
Hi VS!
I, as many others, have read a verible litany of counsel of yours on the K of SA threads here on Daves. Although you have never set sandaled foot (by your own frequent and honest admission) on her scorched and littered sands, you notwithstanding continue to offer advice to persons looking to get an idea of how it is here in the Kingdom before coming for the first time.
I must declare that your above response is the most circumspect and excellent counsel I've seen. I concur totally with the message itself,and admire your treatment of the OP as a foreign-language educator looking to explore new horizons- just as most of us perpetually are.
I do, however, opine that boredom is likely to be encountered-just another part of the deal that holding your nose and diving into KSA supposes. Otherwise, a very repeatable reply of a nature I wish I saw more here on ESL Cafe.
...RD
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[/quote]
Most of the advice VS has to offer is quite general in nature, and comes from years in the Middle East. I have never set foot in a lot of the ME, but have a bit better than average knowledge of places I haven't been to because I have been in the region, have posted and read on this board for a couple of years, and now have many friends and colleagues who have worked in those places.
And, yes, be prepared for boredom, unless you are remarkable creative, are a male and have a car. This is especially true for those who don't have easy access to Bahrain. |
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