Job Discussion Forums

[manowur]

Hey Didah,

Thanks for, yet again, another detailed response. I truly appreciate your time and concern. It�s nice to know there are at least some thoughtful people out there willing share information in order to benefit others and not just keep it to themselves.

Like I said, I�m going to give Diran a call tomorrow and tell them about my situation. By the way, how much do they charge for their services? I asked around a couple places last week and the cheapest price I was quoted was $188 for everything. Does that sound about right? It�s hard to believe when the visa itself appears to be only $14.

As for the company I�m dealing with, I don�t know how much they�re supposed to be involved in the process, but they basically just gave me the guidelines to applying for the work visa (copy and paste from Saudi consulate website), and are supposed to send a letter mentioning the visa block number and date, sponsor letter, and contract. On the other-hand, I have been talking to another school and the visa copy and sponsor letter they sent were apparently generic, or as they called it �open� (not mentioning any specific names, but instead various nationalities, occupations and cities of departure). However, the contract they sent was personalized. Do you know if this is a common acceptable practice? Although it seems as if it would be more efficient, it doesn't match with what is requested per the requirements on the Saudi consulate website.

With regard to paying up front, to be honest, I didn�t know they were obligated to. At my previous employer, we were expected to pay for almost everything, so I guess they kind of brainwashed me. Now excuse my ignorance, but what other things should I expect them to pay or give me an allowance for (besides the obvious things like plane tickets, accommodation, transportation, medical insurance, etc.)? By the way, how much is the physical? I didn�t imagine it would be so expensive.

Concerning Bahrain, I�ve explained my situation to the company and am awaiting further instructions. They initially were going to send the visa to Washington, but then I suggested Bahrain instead because of my concerns. Whoa�pick up my hotel tab and expenses? The thought never even crossed my mind since I am the one who initiated the whole Bahrain idea. If they would cover the costs, that would be lovely. Geez, I am learning more and more just how na�ve I am to this whole EFL hiring process. As for the embassy having the proper block visa, how can I know unless I actually apply with my paperwork? I may have a letter referring to some visa number and date, but how would I know that's what the embassy has on file? To be honest, maybe I'm not too clear on whole "block visa" thing.

You make a very valid point about the issue of wasta. One of the companies (that shall remain nameless) I�m dealing with is a recruiter out of the UK. Also, I am in contact with a local language school, and a couple other Saudi universities. I have no idea which has the most influence but, if I had to pick, I guess I would go with one of the universities just because they�re tied to the government and the Ministry of Higher Education (MoHE). What do you think?

Your Bahrain experience gives me twitching flashbacks of what I endured when dealing with embassies while I was working in Egypt. I would�ve thought the situation would�ve been better in the Gulf region - little do I know. But, as you mentioned, I was not planning on doing the paperwork on my own in Bahrain (in fact, I don�t even think it�s allowed). The company has provided details for a few visa agencies there to contact, and this is what I�ve heard others do. Basically, you get to your hotel, give the agency a call, a representative comes to meet you at the hotel, they sort through the paperwork, and the representative takes what he needs to complete the processing. After a few days of checking out Manama, you meet up again and he gives you back your passport with visa stamped therein.

According to this one company, they said I�m free to choose where to process the visa as they have allocations available in both Bahrain and Washington. Again, I initiated the Bahrain discussion because I thought I would have a better chance of not getting rejected. Hence, I can�t see the company coming out of pocket for hotel expenses, etc. Still, I am waiting to hear what they advise.

As for BAH, yes, I�ve seen the ad. I think the position is in Jubail however and I�ve already seen what Jubail has to offer. Needless to say, I was not impressed. Plus, I�m not sure I meet their minimum requirements.

Thanks again for your continued support. I�ll keep you posted with any updates.

manowur

[Didah]

Hi Again Manowur,
I saw a few red flags that I would like to address and I am sure our colleagues can add to this as well.

� Using a visa service in Bahrain. From your description that the agent will come to your hotel and three days later return your passport with a work visa � all I can say that if it sounds too good to be true then it probably is. Remember that the KSA embassy more or less requires that you do the visa processing in your home country. Look at the problems that you are having now. They would only be complicated in Bahrain and you still may not get a visa and be out a couple of thousand dollars in a hotel, airfare and expenses. My advice is to stay the course in the states and only go to Bahrain if instructed to do so by your future employer and your future employer is willing to at least put up your expenses and airfare in advance. In my experience, if they will not pay up front to help you secure the visa to work for them, you will have a hard time collecting on the back end if and when you get there.
� The company that will employ you knows whether or not they have the proper visa on file with the KSA embassy in either the States or Bahrain because they have to pay for the visas that they have on file.
� Personally, I would avoid recruiters. There are plenty of jobs advertised on Dave�s and other sites for direct hire position � especially in the universities. Also, the recruiter will say just about anything to get you hired. They are head hunters after all and only interested in making the commission. From what I have seen in the recruiter ads, they are mostly low end jobs.
� I would avoid language schools. There are plenty of stories on this site about the horrors of working for these companies. Not only does the staff treat you worse than in other types of teaching situation but they pay the least. When I was in the KSA the last time, I interviewed at IH for some part time work. I could tell when I walked in the door that it was a bad situation � even for part time work.
� Location. In my opinion it is more important to get the best package possible and working conditions as possible including housing, transportation, vacations, health care. While Jubail may not be the garden spot of the KSA, a job like at BAH has a better than average package. And with a shared vehicle you can spend weekends in Bahrain which is less than a two hour drive depending on bridge traffic. I would also look into the better paying DLI jobs at Vinnel and Raytheon. You may also want to consider one of the better ARAMCO contractors like the HAK group. They have a recruiter in the states the handles the process. You could also look into some of the colleges and universities that take teachers with just a bachelor�s degree like Jubail Industrial College and in some cases KFPUM. With your degree in engineering, you might even qualify to teach math in an institution with English medium instruction.

As for the physical � if you haven�t seen the form from the KSA embassy in D.C. here it is:

http://www.saudiembassy.net/services/employment_visa.aspx

Look on the right hand column at all the lab work which � depending on where you go � can cost more than $500. My last physical to satisfy the KSA requirements cost $1,200 from a reasonably priced doctor. My colleague got his physical for around $900. It goes without saying that it is important to have a signed contract and fees such as the physical paid for up front. It you are going to work for a reputable employer they should do this. Other out of pocket costs include a local police background check (under $50), photographs, transcripts and degree certification. The big on though is the physical.

The bottom line is that I would not do anything without a signed contract in my hand. I have one and it has been five months. However, they did pay for my physical and my entire out of pocket expenses. I know that if the company is on the level they should pay up front or help you with your KSA physical and other expenses. Try and be open minded and concentrate on the deal and not so much the location. I have had good experiences working in the KSA but my first priority is the salary and the package as opposed to the location. The KSA is not a very sociable place. There are no movie theatres and not a lot of spots that are conducive for socializing except walking around a mall or sitting in a Starbucks. You are better off with paid-for-air-conditioning, high speed Internet, some good books, and a nice compound or apartment. Since you have been to Egypt, you have a feel for the Middle East. In my experience in the Gulf, the Tragic Kingdom is a whole different kind of country that does take some adjustment the first time. I have seen people thrive in that environment and other that have gone the other way. Whatever you do, go in there with your eyes open.

Good Luck.

[Mia Xanthi]

[desultude]

[MixtecaMike]

If you do your visa in Bahrain you have to do the medical there also. It cost me about BHD 50 (12 months ago) and was ready the next day. You must use an agent now. The visa agent didn't come to my hotel, but the office for one of them (Hilton)was 5 minutes walk from the hotel (Metropolitan), so no problem. The visa agent costs were well worth the expense, compared to my week-long ordeal 2 years ago dealing with the embassy in person. Check with the visa agent before doing the medical, as there were only two hospitals authorized (as of August 2008) and I suspect they change from time to time.

[manowur]

Hey people,

It�s me again. Man, what a week!

I no longer have the Bahrain option available to me (it�s a long story), so it looks like I�ll be forced to go through the Washington embassy. I guess it was fate Didah. So, I�ll stop talking Bahrain. Btw, thanks also for your input MixtecaMike.

Apparently, I understand that the standard is for applicants to pay for their own visa processing fees for public Saudi universities. If someone could confirm, that would be great. I can�t speak for defense contractors but according to Didah, they should take care of everything.

I understand your sentiments about recruiters Didah but to be honest, I really don�t want to make any long term commitments in Saudi which is why I�ve been avoiding direct hire positions. By the way, not all jobs with recruiters are at the bottom of the barrel. I�ve at least dropped the language school idea though.

As far as location, I�m sorry but this is important to me. Now obviously salary package is most important, but I am willing to miss out on a few things to be in a bigger city. I�ve tried the small remote city thing, and it�s just not for me (esp. being single). I�ve also looked into some of those DLI jobs you mentioned and unfortunately, I don�t meet the necessary qualifications at this time.

A big thanks also for making me aware about the costs for the medical. My mouth nearly dropped to the floor when I saw the prices you mentioned. I called around and confirmed you are indeed correct. And lucky me, I don�t have any insurance so I�m going to have to come out of pocket. Is that new Obama health care bill supposed to be signed anytime soon???

Anyways, again, I really appreciate all your advice. You made some very good points. I�m trying to be as open-minded as I can. But to be honest, I haven�t received any spectacular deals similar to what you have where every single little thing is taken care of. Therefore, as most of my offers don�t differ too much, I have to take location into account.

Thanks again people. Wish me luck in DC (Lord knows I�ll need it).

[Sheikh Abdullah]

You can always sign up for Kaiser Permanente.

It's a cool hospital and it only costs 225 for the insurance. After you complete the medical tests, simply cancel the insurance. You end up paying only 300 dollars.

[manowur]

Hey Sheikh,

Thanks for the bright idea.
I just checked out Kaiser's website though and it says if I did buy a plan, it couldn't start before October 1st.
I actually need something for next week.
I also found some short-term health plans that can start right away. Does anyone know if they may cover the necessary lab tests?

Sorry for going off topic.

[veiledsentiments]

I certainly wouldn't count on it. I have full time Blue Cross Blue Shield for a huge premium and it doesn't cover any tests unless a doctor orders them for a specific set of symptoms. (and then they decide the tests allowed, you have no say)

VS

[manowur]

Well that's strange VS because I've spoken to some other people and they've told me their insurance providers covered them (of course, after their doctor ordered the tests). It seems as if Sheik was covered too.

Can anyone else confirm?

[johnslat]

Dear manowar,

" . . . of course, after their doctor ordered the tests)"

And is your doctor doing that?

Regards,
John

[veiledsentiments]

Mine is standard BCBS... and they don't consider foreign employer requested tests to be their problem. If I was a betting person and knowing US health insurance issues, I'd bet that the majority of insurance companies will NOT cover them. Their business goal is to never pay a claim that they can get out of...

I have had a number of doctor requested lab tests that they refused. In fact, they have refused almost every test that wasn't related to surgeries.

BCBS is one of the largest insurance suppliers in the US. HMOs may work differently.

VS

[desultude]

It is very hard to get any tests done unless a doctor prescribes them and the insurance company approves them.

The US insurance companies are notorious for not approving even essential tests, let alone tests for foreign employment.

[Sheikh N Bake]

My entire recent physical for KSA was $450. The Saudi company I work for reimburses for physicals, in any case.

As I've explained in detail in various previous posts, you don't necessarily have to complete all the medical tests and labwork on their form. I know because I've done three Saudi visas at various stages of my career (unfortunately). I tell the doc to sign off on the silly ones. All my GPs have scoffed at the stool sample item, for example, and I've never done it in the US. They make you do it over again in the KSA anyway. And the HIV, of course. I'm not sure which one is my favorite, but I'll save that discussion for a forum where people have a lot of time on their hands and not much in their heads.

[Cleopatra]

Before going to the trouble of signing up for health insurance, ask your future employer if they will reimburse your visa-related expenses. Many will do so, provided you keep the receipts.