Job Discussion Forums

[Pikgitina]

Perception and relativity... always interesting.

[desultude]

On occasion, if some of us had a grammar question we couldn't parse, we would go to one of our Pakistani colleagues or our Polish colleague- they often have better formal training in English. I have worked with too many native born American instructors who teach the use of gonna, wanna, hafta, and even ain't for academic writing to believe in the automatic superiority of the native speaker.

The distinctions made in the Kingdom regarding pay and treatment are often based on race and country of origin. Many claim this is racism, pure and simple. While acknowledging that there is enough racism in the Kingdom to go around, including amongst white Western instructors, I believe that if they could get away with it the would treat all of us as they treat their least paid and most abused foreign hires. If they feel they need native speakers and we are a rare enough commodity, they will pay us better. If they can bring in non-native speakers with no negative repercussions, then that is the way they will go.

It is for this, among other reasons, that we need to care about the treatment of all foreign workers in the Kingdom. It is not about invidious distinctions of countries and colors so much as it is about insiders and outsiders and market forces. We foreign workers are all outsiders, but at the moment, we westerners are the diamonds that demand a higher price. Once they discover they can get away with cubic zirconia, our price will fall.

And I think they are figuring it out.

[Never Ceased To Be Amazed]

[veiledsentiments]

[Never Ceased To Be Amazed]

[desultude]

[veiledsentiments]

[Linda467]

Dear VS

If you look at some of the CDs in English with lyrics - original, not pirates) you can see the use of written wanna, gonna and ain�t which can get many people confused (I have Frank Sinatra, Billy Joel, Take That, just to name a few that come to my mind right this minute but there is many more

Most Brits will say this is "haram" but most American will use the words in written and spoken forms. Again two countries separated by the same language

[johnslat]

Dear Linda467,
" . . . most American will use the words in written and spoken forms."

Spoken, OK (except for "ain't"), but written?? If so, I've definitely been hanging around with a vanishing breed all my life.

Regards,
John

[desultude]

[johnslat]

Dear desultude,
I just wanna say that I'm gonna check on that, but in my opinion, it simply ain't the case (in the vast majority of cases.)
Regards,
John

[veiledsentiments]

To me it has always been spoken register or very informal (email or letter to a close friend), but one supposes that there are younger teachers who have not caught on to that one yet. But I would consider it a sign of linguistic (and probably emotional) immaturity. Something I would expect to only see from what we normally call "backpacker teachers."

And speaking of finding it in written music lyrics (an informal register IMO), I also had to correct quite a bit of ... ahem... not socially acceptable language that they picked up from music and films.

VS

[desultude]

[Linda467]

Hi,

My point is that even if we all know is informal or "casual" English it is used and you can see it and hear it.

I had students asking me about it and what was formal or correct as they say (biz people) or not, obviously it does not apply to KSA.

I just like to look at things from a realistic point of view. By the way John, I was married to a New Yorker for 15 years and he did use it but there is a possibility we were all mixed up (he�s background from Swiss-French, English, Irish & Polish) mine from generations of romans, greeks, barbarians, arabs, so who the heck knows

[Citizenkane]