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happeningthang
Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 117
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 Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:49 am Post subject: EF - TEFL Visa Regulation? |
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I've received a reply from EF saying that visa regulations require me to have a TEFL certification to be employed for Shanghai, Beijing, Shenzhen and Guangzhou.
Is that for ALL schools in those cities, or just for EF? I thought I was applying for positions in Xian since they were advertising jobs there.
It'd help to know if I shouldn't even bother with the above mentioned cities.
Cheers. |
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Sinobear
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 1269
Location: Purgatory
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:52 am Post subject: |
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Wow! Two BIG questions pop into mind when reading your post: 1. If you've been on these boards since 2003, you mean to tell us that you don't have any sort of TEFL cert by now? 2. If you've been on these boards since 2003, you mean to tell us that you're applying to EF?
Look, it's simple. The big cities require a degree, two years of experience, and a TEFL cert of some sort. Yeah, there's hundreds of schools that can bypass one or all of the three requirements, but if they're so good, why can't they legally hire FTs? And! If those kinds of schools who can bypass the simple requirements have that much power, but they're still not legal, don't you think you might be in for more trouble than it's worth?
Perhaps I'm just a grumpy old poop, but heck, I would think that reading a Chinese gov't website that states, "Degree holder, two years experience and a TEFL certificate" wouldn't be too much of a challenge for those who actually have the holy trinity.
Cheers! |
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happeningthang
Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| Sinobear wrote: |
| Wow! Two BIG questions pop into mind when reading your post: 1. If you've been on these boards since 2003, you mean to tell us that you don't have any sort of TEFL cert by now? 2. If you've been on these boards since 2003, you mean to tell us that you're applying to EF? |
1) Stupidly - I thought a masters degree in linguistics was more worthwhile - but apparently I didn't take the bureaucratic logic of immigration officials into account.
2) Why? What's so bad about EF? I haven't heard anything particularly egregious in Korea - where I've been spending my time since 2003.
| Sinobear wrote: |
Look, it's simple. The big cities require a degree, two years of experience, and a TEFL cert of some sort. Yeah, there's hundreds of schools that can bypass one or all of the three requirements, but if they're so good, why can't they legally hire FTs? And! If those kinds of schools who can bypass the simple requirements have that much power, but they're still not legal, don't you think you might be in for more trouble than it's worth?
Perhaps I'm just a grumpy old poop, but heck, I would think that reading a Chinese gov't website that states, "Degree holder, two years experience and a TEFL certificate" wouldn't be too much of a challenge for those who actually have the holy trinity.
Cheers! |
Yeh - you are a bit of a grumpy old poop. |
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Dancing Monkey
Joined: 23 Aug 2009
Posts: 79
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:58 am Post subject: |
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Some of us love that grumpy old *beep*. I certainly do.
Keep it up Sinobear. |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Why? What's so bad about EF? I haven't heard anything particularly egregious in Korea - where I've been spending my time since 2003. |
I've heard some local biz people there have begun a MacClone Chain called English Fast and had the guts to advertize it as EF as well...didn't even have to clean my ears to hear that 
| Quote: |
| I thought a masters degree in linguistics was more worthwhile |
That will most certainly help you with EF. They might even provide you with a master uniform too. Seriously, you'll teach some young learner classes and you'll have a Chinese teacher assistant that's got a Chinese high school diploma and that's got a responsibility to provide a feedback on your teaching to the center manager. Aslo, your academic goals at the center will probably not allow you to use much of that master degree knowledge that you've got too. Maybe Korea allows more of a western approach to the education and less of an interferance from the local biz people or managers, but China does not. Well, i bet you know that, don't you?
OP, I respect your inquiry. My experience and forums suggest you'd stay away from this mill. Don't contribute to the Mac Chinese EF investors that've been using their dirty cash in this, on the first sight, western laundry machine.
Cheers and beers to burgers with Heinz ketchup rather than cherry souce  |
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happeningthang
Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| englishgibson wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Why? What's so bad about EF? I haven't heard anything particularly egregious in Korea - where I've been spending my time since 2003. |
I've heard some local biz people there have begun a MacClone Chain called English Fast and had the guts to advertize it as EF as well...didn't even have to clean my ears to hear that |
Yeah, it's called English First in Korea, has the same logo but doesn't seem to be part of the international parent network of schools. But, again, I haven't heard anything particularly bad about it. In Korea - and in my experience - you get more trouble with the 'mom and pop' individually owned schools, who don't have large revenue streams, and so are all too willing to not pay your taxes as they should, skimp on health insurance, give crappy accommodation and sometimes just simply not pay you on time, or in some cases - ever.
I've worked a few big chain name schools, and at least they have the resources to make sure their teachers are taken care of and that you have the materials to do your job.
Obviously, I'd love to walk into a cherry job in China on day one, but I recognise I have to pay my dues and start at, or close to the bottom. As a starter school in a new country, where I have no network, contacts or experience it doesn't seem THAT bad.
Unless you all know something I don't, of course.
| englishgibson wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I thought a masters degree in linguistics was more worthwhile |
That will most certainly help you with EF. They might even provide you with a master uniform too. Seriously, you'll teach some young learner classes and you'll have a Chinese teacher assistant that's got a Chinese high school diploma and that's got a responsibility to provide a feedback on your teaching to the center manager. Aslo, your academic goals at the center will probably not allow you to use much of that master degree knowledge that you've got too. Maybe Korea allows more of a western approach to the education and less of an interferance from the local biz people or managers, but China does not. Well, i bet you know that, don't you? |
No, large chain schools in Korea micromanage too, and unsuprisingly, your job satisfaction is low on their list of priorities - if at all. They're more interested in getting students in, and changing to meet the latest unrealistic expectations imposed by pushy mothers, or political whim. It's part of the job, and while my inner academic may inwardly cringe and die a little each day - I accept that. I do my best with the tools I have and the time I've got, and in any case most of these chains have reasonably good programs - it's just the consistency that I find lacking.
| englishgibson wrote: |
OP, I respect your inquiry. My experience and forums suggest you'd stay away from this mill. Don't contribute to the Mac Chinese EF investors that've been using their dirty cash in this, on the first sight, western laundry machine.
Cheers and beers to burgers with Heinz ketchup rather than cherry souce |
Like I say - I'm going into a country where I don't know anyone, and I accept I have to pay my dues in a starter school, before I can expect more. If you have any suggestions as to how I can leapfrog over this den of rapacious capitalism masquerading as an education, by all means, please share.
Also, I should say thanks to SinoBear who did at least answer my questions in his crumudgeonly fashion. 
Cheers big ears, and thanks to all who answered. |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:29 am Post subject: |
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wow! i haven't been quoted that much in a while...flattering it is.
| Quote: |
| I'm going into a country where I don't know anyone, and I accept I have to pay my dues in a starter school, before I can expect more. |
I like your honest approach there. I bet there's more waiting for you later...and, maybe at the EF too
welcome to china!
Cheers and holding the ears of our cold mugs with all the dues we have to pay |
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