Job Discussion Forums

[RollingStone]

.....

[RollingStone]

[RollingStone]

[RollingStone]

Since I do not expect these points to be addressed, allow me: workers will be motivated to fight the fight when they are convinced they have no other options. Labour disputes that have the best chance of success are driven in no small part by the desperation of need. Also, a strong union and no chance of being undermined by replacement (non-union) labour.

Eikaiwa schools with international recruitment offices puttered along normally hiring from abroad until some point last year when the majority of recruitment remained in J due to the surge in increased contract renewals. So, now is the chance for the union wishing to swell its ranks with those who see it in their best interests in the long-term. But, of those that renewed last year are they really thinking long-term or just temporary. I bet the latter. So, if and when the economy starts rolling again, the union will be beset with the same issue of representing workers who see them as worst-case insurance rather than integral to long-term benefit.

So far, on one of the major ESL forums, no one has been able to pose any likely scenarios that will change this trend, or suggest realistic motivation. But apparently to point out the existence of the 800 lbs gorilla in the middle of the room is to be cynical....

[timothypfox]

Rollingstone, perhaps I am guilty of taking your arguments somewhat out of context. But before things get too heated - for me this is talk and productive discussion - and I think things are being said openly that need to be said about this troubled industry.

At the time I went to Japan, I was unaware that there was an ESL industry anywhere except abroad. So, I went abroad, unaware that labor practices at least at private language schools and colleges were similar (in my case - in the North American context).

My thoughts about the union joining excetra were not intended to foster cynicism. A point I meant to add after posting my last response was that well prepared prospective teachers could join the Union ahead of time before heading off to Japan, and then choose to receive information only through the Internet. That way when trouble happens, a teacher could have the Union option. At this point, a teacher could only safely call in the Union to tackle issues such as being fired safely - Otherwise there is the fear of job loss. Taking an employer fully on - would have to unfortunately be done with the risk of losing a job.

But, increasing Union membership, would allow the Union to work on the behalf of all workers with common issues and thus keep individual employees anonymous (at least in a big company!). The Union could simply begin pressuring a company by saying I heard from some teachers that.... and refuse to give names.

It is again the tackling of individual issues of a worker that are not necessarily in-common with other workers, or in the case of a worker/teacher who works in a small organization - that a teacher may have problems turning to the Union.

But, at least in the larger sense I mention above, the Union could provide leverage for common issues with enough members to pay for the Union to advocate by approaching companies, and launching publicity campaigns in both English AND Japanese.

[RollingStone]

[Glenski]

[Glenski]

[RollingStone]

Armchair quarterbacking! I take issue with that remark! (not really, just kidding). I am merely attempting to understand the environment and what the prospects are. Part of this process is using some basic, commonly known parameters to hypothesize. Thus, I have painted a very clear picture using just the fundamental feature and characteristics of that industry. Oddly, this industry I am describing exists everywhere else (internet forums that include but are not limited to J TESL; friends; acquaintances etc) but in reality.

Ok, I`ll concede that in the eikaiwa industry most people would be willing to make a long-term committment but the employers discourage it. I know that that isnt true, both generally and anecdotely, and that it is the nature of the work itself that is the main reason why the vast majority dont consider it a lifetime career, but what the heck, lets say youre right.

I`ll concede that just because the vast majority in the industry 20-10-5 years ago are long gone does not mean the industry employs a transient workforce. Im sure the other J industries experience the same turnover to the same degree.

I`ll concede that, though the industry has felt it feasible to drastically slash wages, exploit workers, conduct harassment and union-busting and god knows what else, the union actually maintains a strong and vital presence and is well respected by ownership and management.

Heck, I`ll even toss in that the union has a CBA from which to work with, and that with these latest slashes etc eikaiwa management are walking on the edge, laughing in the face of the general union, tempting the wrath of Fuji san himself!! (Or maybe they just figure they have nothing to lose.)

The problem with these concessions is that I feel like we are describing less and less the eikaiwa that I have read about and heard about from people who have worked in it much longer than yourself (and likely most people on this forum). However, I concede again that this is your very point. Since we appear to be discussing two very separate and different things perhaps we should put the lid on this one.

And Glenski, just because one clicks on the quote button doesnt mean what is being quoted is being engaged reasonably. In fact, it just makes it easier to disingenuously slice up and ignore and distort the context. In other words, it facilitates an argumentative discussion. Not that I would ever accuse you of that.

[Glenski]

[womblingfree]

An entry level job in Japan, all things considered, provides a salary more than the average for new graduates, and way more than the average for the population of the US. Japan also provides way more holidays than the US for eikaiwa teachers. It also provides health insurance as standard, which is (uniquely in the Western world) something not required in the US.

I have a 'proper' teaching job in my home country which has required years of study and I still wouldn't consider 250,000yen a month a particularly bad deal for the reasons I've given earlier in this thread. An eikaiwa job's just as proper a job as anything else, just in the educational retail sector rather than in a purely academic sense. The only difference really is that often a teacher's role and the marketing role is blurred, causing frustration and resentment to teachers to whom this fact was not made clear.

Even the finest educational establishments are businesses that require funding and student retention. The only difference is that they are often government funded and the marketing departments are entirely seperate from the teaching.

I work at a community college and if student numbers drop, classes close people lose their jobs. Simple.

There are plenty of opportunities to tour Japan in the holidays. I don't think Rllingstone meant a teacher is likely to spend their entire time backpacking around the country!

[RollingStone]

[womblingfree]

[seklarwia]

[RollingStone]

I certainly agree with the points made about courses being cancelled. However, it seems to me that you are both assuming that if a course is cancelled it is due to non-enrollment in the school. While that may be a part of the reason I would suggest the main reason is that students simply are not interested in said course or are changing their track - taking different courses, major etc.

I understand that many students, particularly at universities, tend to be there for reasons other than interest in their work. Most of them go because they are convinced it is necessary for the work force. However, universities and departments therein do have reputations, and depending on far you go, you do find that they work on an exclusionary principle - you dont just show up with a cheque for tuition.

Again, I am discussing norms, general trends. To obtain a 4 year degree one cannot simply bounce around from one uni to the next every few months. I think its reasonable to conclude that those in their first or second year of a 3 or 4 year program will likely stay the remaining years, if it is within their power to do so.