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Go With Interac or Take a Chance with JET
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GambateBingBangBOOM

Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:13 am Post subject:

Quote:

it is still confusing to me to see that an Interac employee might be told to have shakai hoken depending "on the contract with the BoE". WTF does the BOE have to do with anything?

I think that poster is confused between shakai hoken and kokumin hoken. Some Boes will force the employees to be on National Insurance, because their actual job is through a public office (... and... uh, it's like... the LAW and all). Others may just gloss over it ("assuming" that the dispatch company is doing what they need to to make sure that the ALT is compliant with the law, read 'are fully aware that the actual salary of the ALT is so low that if they were made to pay for health insurance, there is no way they would be able to make ends meet').

Inflames

Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 486

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:45 pm Post subject:

Glenski wrote:

Figured as such, GBBBOOM.

It is still confusing to me to see that an Interac employee might be told to have shakai hoken depending "on the contract with the BoE". WTF does the BOE have to do with anything?

Well, the ALTs work at a BOE facility with BOE employees and are involved with teaching BOE classes. The BOE, by way of Interac, sets the working hours and influences the ALT's pay.

Some BOEs want their ALTs to work more than 29.5 hours a week or want (or have been warned by the government as any employees at the school should be under the control of the principal) to be able to tell the ALTs what to do. For a brief period, I was employed by Interac (I won't get into the details regarding it). My contract (which I still have) clearly states I was obligated to work more than 30 hours a week and something (either the contract or some other documentation) stated I had to be enrolled in shakai hoken. At my "training" session we had people who wouldn't be enrolled in shakai hoken and people who were going to be enrolled in it, so they explained some of the differences (the people who were sent as haken employees had it a lot easier (in terms of paperwork).

If the BOE wants ALTs to work there more than 29.5 hours a week, Interac (and pretty much every other ALT company) will come up with a contract for that.

rhoadesd20

Joined: 06 Sep 2009
Posts: 8

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:27 pm Post subject:

[quote="Inflames"]

Glenski wrote:

If the BOE wants ALTs to work there more than 29.5 hours a week, Interac (and pretty much every other ALT company) will come up with a contract for that.

Would that new contract (working more than 29.5 hours) then entail you to make more money?

ripslyme

Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 481
Location: Japan

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:41 pm Post subject:

rhoadesd20 wrote:

Inflames wrote:

If the BOE wants ALTs to work there more than 29.5 hours a week, Interac (and pretty much every other ALT company) will come up with a contract for that.

Would that new contract (working more than 29.5 hours) then entail you to make more money?

lol - no, it just means a different way of counting your working hours. Hooray for shady dispatch companies! Laughing

Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:21 pm Post subject:

Inflames wrote:

Well, the ALTs work at a BOE facility with BOE employees and are involved with teaching BOE classes. The BOE, by way of Interac, sets the working hours and influences the ALT's pay.

But the key here is who pays the ALT salary -- BOE or dispatcher? That is the employer, and that contract is what provides the FT or PT status. If BOE wants something and the dispatcher puts it in the teacher's contract, the dispatcher is still the employer if he pays the salary.

Quote:

Some BOEs want their ALTs to work more than 29.5 hours a week or want (or have been warned by the government as any employees at the school should be under the control of the principal) to be able to tell the ALTs what to do.

See the www.generalunion.org site (keyword "dispatch) for details on the types of dispatch arrangements.

Quote:

For a brief period, I was employed by Interac (I won't get into the details regarding it). My contract (which I still have) clearly states I was obligated to work more than 30 hours a week and something (either the contract or some other documentation) stated I had to be enrolled in shakai hoken.

That something is the labor law.

Quote:

At my "training" session we had people who wouldn't be enrolled in shakai hoken and people who were going to be enrolled in it, so they explained some of the differences (the people who were sent as haken employees had it a lot easier (in terms of paperwork).

I wonder what that "explanation" entailed in order to skirt the labor laws.

Quote:

If the BOE wants ALTs to work there more than 29.5 hours a week, Interac (and pretty much every other ALT company) will come up with a contract for that.

Then the dispatcher must enroll that person in shakai hoken, contrary to what rhoadesd just wrote.

Inflames

Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 486

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:43 pm Post subject:

Glenski wrote:

Quote:

That something is the labor law.

There actually was some documentation (not the labor law) stating it. Many companies do just ignore the law. I know people who work for ZIAC (a really crappy dispatch company in Kansai) and they have the option of joining shakai hoken. Unfortunately, many companies break the law (this applies to Japanese and foreign companies and Japanese and foreign employees). Some examples I've seen or experienced are not being enrolled (but having my contributions withheld) in unemployment insurance until I had worked for 6 months and the same for shakai hoken for 2 months. I think if someone sued Interac regarding their "29.5 hour workweek" Interac would get laughed out of court (they have to stay at their workplace, following workplace regulations, but it's not actually work is really good logic).

I'm not going to say anything more about Interac (besides this post). Every person I know who has worked for them (I have 6 friends or acquaintances who have worked for them from a variety of backgrounds and work ethics) would not recommend working for them and none of them have accepted a new contract (for most employees, your contract can't even be renewed). Honestly I feel that, at some point, the law regarding shakai hoken, pensions, and health insurance will have to change (personally I favor the system in the US - where you, subject to an income cap, must always contribute in addition to your employer).

GambateBingBangBOOM

Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:14 pm Post subject:

Inflames wrote:

Honestly I feel that, at some point, the law regarding shakai hoken, pensions, and health insurance will have to change (personally I favor the system in the US - where you, subject to an income cap, must always contribute in addition to your employer).

I'm sorry. Did you just write that you think it should go to the system in the US?????? Have you noticed that there is currently a little bit of a debate over health care there right now?

The problem isn't shakai hoken, or kokumin hoken. The problem is dispatch companies, eikaiwas and other companies. They simply wouldn't be able to get away with what they do if they were hiring Japanese people.

It IS going to change. It will become more expensive. Too many old people, not enough young workers, employers paying very little, and therefore the amount of tax money received on those earnings also being low.

Inflames

Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 486

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:05 pm Post subject:

GambateBingBangBOOM wrote:

Inflames wrote:

I'm sorry. Did you just write that you think it should go to the system in the US?????? Have you noticed that there is currently a little bit of a debate over health care there right now?

If you don't want your employer to have to pay part of insurance and pension, that's your right and I'm sure your employer thanks you for it. As for me, I want them to pay for part of mine and I do think a system where one and one's employer must (well, there are some exceptions) pay, regardless of hours worked, is a good idea. (for the record, my original comments didn't mention anything about largely getting rid of national insurance in Japan nor do I favor that).

Japanese companies tend to treat a lot of employees poorly. It's usually not with shakai hoken (outside of the 2 month scam) but overtime and paid holidays are big ways of breaking the law. I've had several contracts that are the same as my Japanese coworkers (and currently work under 2 of them) and it doesn't take a genius to see where they try and break the law. In the end, I think mandatory withholding (wasn't there mention of it for pensions a few years ago?) and employers being forced to contribute will be the end result.

ripslyme

Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 481
Location: Japan

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:08 pm Post subject:

Inflames wrote:

If you don't want your employer to have to pay part of insurance and pension, that's your right and I'm sure your employer thanks you for it.

Actually, it is the responsibility of all full-time employees and their employers to contribute to the health insurance and pension plan. Deciding to not contribute is akin to deciding to not pay taxes.

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