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If you are waiting for your visa you may have to wait longer
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Kalima Shahada



Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Posts: 198
Location: I live in a house, but my home is in the stable.

PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear johnslat,

That's interesting. I've needed my original on my person quite a few times over the years. You must have yours in very special hands back home.

So what did you do for your Saudi work visas? Did you get your degree certified by the Secretary of State at the US Dept. of State and take that document with you to the Saudi Embassy? This was required by the Saudi Embassy in D.C., so I went through the rigmarole.
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Kalima Shahada,

Ah, I first went over in a far simpler time - 1980. I just sent all the stuff (not even originals - just copies) to the Saudi embassy in Washington, D.C.
That was all that was required way back then.

Makes sense, though. I mean, especially these days, when just about anyone can reproduce a perfectly authentic looking "original." The best/safest way for the embassy would be just to contact the university/college.

Regards,
John
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Cleopatra



Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago

PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Cleopatra, why is that so difficult to understand? The procedure you went through in the UK is not the same procedure that we will go through at all.



Who is 'we'? I have emphasised throughout that my experience is my experience alone, in one particular time and place. I'm not setting general rules - other than to say contact the relevant embassy.

BTW like John I have never brought an original copy of my degree to KSA. There's never been any need.
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snowsilver



Joined: 23 Jun 2009
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I post hesitantly as I've never been to KSA, but I've been the mastermind behind getting my son's work visa completed (he IS going hopefully this week if we finally get the visa approved).

We did NOT have to send original copies of his bachelor's or master's to to the consulate. We only had to send copies. We actually hired a service in DC (Travisa) to help us through this horrible process. There is apparently some master web site where you simply go to get your degrees certified by the university (most US universities subscribe). We did have to send copies of the degrees as well as go through this website.

[/i]
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As to the rest of the Gulf, I always carried my originals and copies... for 15 years. So, if you plan to go from Saudi to work in another Gulf country without going home first, take your originals. I was required by my employers to show them in Kuwait, Oman, and the UAE. (both government and private employers)

VS
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reneebcc



Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 60
Location: Georgia

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:14 am    Post subject: Visa issues Reply with quote

johnslat wrote:
OK, doesn't it all depend on what kind of visa an employee is coming in on?

If it's the "regular employment visa" (such as I, and I believe Cleopatra, always had/have), then Cleopatra is quite right.

But this (apparently new) tactic of bringing teachers in on so-called "business visas" and "temporary work visas" sounds like it's a different kettle of fish.

From what I've been reading, it seems that, for these "temporary (and actually illegal) visas," far less documentation is required; HOWEVER, sooner or later (providing the teacher lasts), a trip to Bahrain will be necessary, presumably to acquire a REAL working visa,
And if that's the case, it seems to me that the teacher in Bahrain WILL need to be able to produce all the required documentation, including medical and (likely) police report.

So, am I right in this, or am I way off base?

Regards,
John



You go through so much to provide the proper documents and payments for a proper employment visa. What do you get in return...ILLEGAL visas and the run-arounds to renew it. I'm beginning to wonder if it's worth going to KSA now. The fact that most of us are getting "business/temporary" visas inspite of what we applied and paid for seems like a death trap. Not to mention, in the process of renewing these visas you have provide proof of everything again..even out of your own pockets is absurd??? How much energy does it take to get a proper employment visa? Rolling Eyes
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lucreziaborgia



Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 177

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gawd!
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Cleopatra



Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You go through so much to provide the proper documents and payments for a proper employment visa. What do you get in return...ILLEGAL visas and the run-arounds to renew it. I'm beginning to wonder if it's worth going to KSA now.


If you've had to go to the hassle and expense of getting everything for a full work visa, only to be told that it's actually a 'business' visa and you'll have to do the whole thing all over again, I'd be inclined to agree with you.

There are occasions where legitimate employers may feel they have no option other than to bring you in on a business visa. However, if an employer is making this a routine procedure, there is something dodgy about them. Hiring teachers on a business visa should be a last resort, not standard practice.
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Chthon



Joined: 03 Jun 2009
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wasn't this thread originally about the start of the next semester?
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ThaneKerner



Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cleopatra wrote:


There are occasions where legitimate employers may feel they have no option other than to bring you in on a business visa. However, if an employer is making this a routine procedure, there is something dodgy about them. Hiring teachers on a business visa should be a last resort, not standard practice.



Agreed. And what happens if there's a sudden crackdown on this abuse? You could be out of work in an instant. I see visions of planes full of newly-unemployed people flying out of the kingdom, each wondering how the hell he got there. And nary an agent will be among you. Those guys will be safe back at the office.
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed



Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Visa issues Reply with quote

reneebcc wrote:


You go through so much to provide the proper documents and payments for a proper employment visa. What do you get in return...ILLEGAL visas and the run-arounds to renew it. I'm beginning to wonder if it's worth going to KSA now...


I think that you may be amongst the most astute in the current cohort of job applicants for the new-fangled k.s.a. "recruiters". I don't think that ANY of the long-time posters/observers here has EVER seen such a perplexed group of people seemingly desperate (i.e. willing to wait endlessly, receiving poor/strange/non-standard/hard to deceipher offers, offers to bring them in on these dubious "new" visa arrangements/business visas...Christ, the list goes on and on!) to get into the kingdom of pain.

Now, before I get nasty knee-jerk reactions from the more nastier PMing members over the perceived slight of being refered to as "desperate" (note that I qualified it with seemingly) all you English pros out there...consider this:

I've noted that when people ask pointed questions to these "recruiters", they are dropped like a bad habit. It seems that when ANYONE shows a little moxy (i.e. ability to ask critical questions and stand tough on the answers if not to their satisifaction) these "recruiters" are quick to strike them from the roll of possibilities...yet the ones who don't seemingly get dragged along ad nauseam.

I think (right, VS, who cares what I think Very Happy ) that these organizations are using these tactics to see who is the most mallable so that when (AND IF) they do arrive, they feel reasonably confident that they can extract ANY kind of concession out of these poor souls. With all this talk of three months' compensation on early contract-breakers, where's the downside of these folk? THERE IS NONE! It's ALL gravy for them!

There! I've typed my peace. Now, go ahead and attack me all you want, but pls., feel just as free to point out where I am erring in my proposition. Not a quick little smarmy post or PM, but a considered rebuttal (with your evidence) on the bulk of my thoughts.

NCTBA
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear NCTBA,

I think you've probably described the situation to a TEE. And I'm very sorry to see so many good people being manipulated by all these unscrupulous recruiters/employers.
I mean, Saudi's tough enough to be in for most without all this added grief and unfairness.
Regards,
John
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed



Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now, John, I asked for NO nasty knee-jerk reactions! Laughing

We thank you for your support. Very Happy

NCTBA
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lizziebennet



Joined: 24 May 2009
Posts: 355

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear NCTBA

This is not an attack just speaking from the other side.

Is SR12 000 ($3200 US) a bad offer for someone without an MA or a BA English major?
We are only getting offers of $2000 at the most in Korea. Same salary as teachers without a CELTA, MA (my hubby has an MA) and 5 years experience).

For me, I always assumed you couldn't get a job in Saudi without an MA that is probably the reason why people are willing to be a bit more patient

As far as the iqama/ business visa goes... for my husband and I we are happy not to have to deal with all that paperwork. Especially from the South African side... It can take 3 months to get an unabridged marriage certificate and a month or two to get criminal clearance... never mind other docs.

In fact we have no paperwork to do for the business visa. We are working for a government uni and the ministry is well aware of the business visa situation.

We have also examined it from the perpective of the exit visa. If you are on a business visa you don't seem to have the same restrictions say you wanna get out of the country. And you get to keep your passport. And you get to go outside the country for visa runs paid for by your employee!

We were never intending to buy a car and are fine being paid into our Canadian account and then some money in cash (which is the way the company works it). We usually do our banking over the internet anyway and pay with our international visa.


Last edited by lizziebennet on Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Cleopatra



Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I don't think that ANY of the long-time posters/observers here has EVER seen such a perplexed group of people seemingly desperate (i.e. willing to wait endlessly, receiving poor/strange/non-standard/hard to deceipher offers, offers to bring them in on these dubious "new" visa arrangements/business visas...


Quite so.

Like you, I'm a 'veteran' of this board, but I don't remember anything like what we've seen over the past few months. Normally the summer is quiet time on the board, with most teachers being on holiday and just a few newbies asking fairly reasonable questions about visa procedure, individual employers etc. But there's never been anything like the level of confusion evident over the past few months.

Like you, I don't blame it on the teachers, but rather the employers, or to be more precise, these sinister new 'agencies'. They are without a doubt the most negative thing to happen to the Saudi ESL scene over the past few years. Of course, the fact that swathes of teachers have been made unemployed throughout the world because of the economic crisis hasn't helped either. It's to be hoped that this will be a passing phase, but of course what we think and what employers think is not at all the same thing. It may very well be that we here on Dave's have seen the future with all these 'agencies' - and it's not an encouraging sight.
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