|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
kana
Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 13
|
 Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:29 am Post subject: 100 hour Online TESOL certificate |
 |
|
Where
Last edited by kana on Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chancellor
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1337
Location: Ji'an, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: 100 hour Online TESOL certificate |
|
|
| kana wrote: |
| Does anyone recommend an accredited well known TESOL program? I have been looking all over places such as trinity, and other various websites, but the accreditation usually falls short of a school setting their accreditation company up to accredit their own schools or the websites which accredit schools have dead links. Dead links usually is a sign that a school may not be managed correctly or it is going out of business. Please let me know if you have any suggestions of an online TESOL program that is accredited by a real company that is preferably moderated by the government and is non-profit. |
This has been addressed in various threads ad nauseum.
Also, why does it have to be non-profit? What the hell do you have against businesses making money? You damned commie! 
As Spiral78 said, "The general answer to your question is that online certification is considered substandard in many regions of the world, because by definition it does not include supervised teaching practice with real students, considered the key component of 'reputable' courses." There are a few on-site course providers that offer an online course and that all-important on-site supervised teaching practice with real ESL students. One, in particular, is recognized by TESL Canada (www.ontesol.ca) and their on-site course (http://www.study-at-coventry.com/chi/index.htm) is a Trinity course (don't presume to read into this that if the on-site course is Trinity then the online course must also be Trinity because Trinity itself doesn't do online courses). This particular course, if you also have a four-year degree from a Canadian university or evaluated by certain degree evaluation services like the one at University of Toronto, will get you a certificate from TESL Canada in addition to the school's TESL certificate and ACTDEC's certificate (http://www.actdec.org.uk/index.shtml).
If you're going to do an online course, do it through an on-site course provider that also will do the all-important supervised teaching practice with real ESL students (and not fellow teacher trainees like i-to-i does). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hi there-
A heck of a lot of providers ADVERTISE a hundred hour course. But...most graduates say they aren't really.
As Chancellor notes, an online course with a teaching practicum is the best of the online market. I must admit, though- I still don't personally consider such courses equivalent to good, accredited, onsite courses, and many others don't either.
BUt...finding a genuine not-for-profit (and I understand your preference here) running a genuine online course with government recognition is a pretty rare bird. I simply don't know any.
Because...most online courses are absolutely mickey mouse. Hard to get government recognition for that.
Read the links Spiral put up. Search the boards. There's a lot of discussion on this- the consensus is generally that online only cert courses NEVER are going to make the grade.
The jury is out on "blended learning" programs that combine some distance and some onsite elements. Seems like an idea that could work, from my point of view- but honestly, a lot of these seem like camoflage for online course providers to make their courses look good. Still, the potential may be there.
So...asking about the best online course is a little strange to those of us who have real experience with the standards of the industry, and with teacher training. A bit like having a good disease, or wanting to know which is the best hernia. Online only courses are mostly just ways to separate you from your money?
Best,
Justin. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chancellor
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1337
Location: Ji'an, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Justin Trullinger wrote: |
Hi there-
A heck of a lot of providers ADVERTISE a hundred hour course. But...most graduates say they aren't really. |
I guess the only way to find out would be to take the same course content and try to do it as an on-site course and see how many course hours it takes to cover the material.
| Quote: |
| As Chancellor notes, an online course with a teaching practicum is the best of the online market. I must admit, though- I still don't personally consider such courses equivalent to good, accredited, onsite courses, and many others don't either. |
But that's because you (and others) are still stuck back in the 20th century. However, I think that if someone is going to do an online course they should do it through a course provider that also does an on-site course and is set up to do the all-important supervised teaching practice with real ESL students.
| Quote: |
| BUt...finding a genuine not-for-profit (and I understand your preference here) running a genuine online course with government recognition is a pretty rare bird. I simply don't know any. |
And I don't understand the preference for a not-for-profit course provider.
| Quote: |
| Because...most online courses are absolutely mickey mouse. Hard to get government recognition for that. |
True.
| Quote: |
| The jury is out on "blended learning" programs that combine some distance and some onsite elements. Seems like an idea that could work, from my point of view- but honestly, a lot of these seem like camoflage for online course providers to make their courses look good. Still, the potential may be there. |
So, if an on-site course provider, e.g. a particular Trinity course provider in Canada, chooses to adapt its course so that it could be done online (with the teaching practice being done on-site), you still think it's just camoflage? I suppose you think that if a government university in the United States takes some of its degree programs (including education degrees) and adapts them so they can be done online (or, more accurately, not on-site; these programs very often still require you to buy/read real textbooks and write real papers even if the papers are submitted online), you'd think they were camoflage too? It's time to take your head out of the sand and come into the 21st century with the rest of us, Justin. 
| Quote: |
| So...asking about the best online course is a little strange to those of us who have real experience with the standards of the industry, and with teacher training. A bit like having a good disease, or wanting to know which is the best hernia. Online only courses are mostly just ways to separate you from your money? |
Not that there aren't any on-site courses that likewise just want to separate you from your money (e.g. Oxford Seminars perhaps). Of course, using your "good disease" analogy, the notion of "If you had to have a particular disease, which is the best one to have" might be a valid question. Again, even government universities in Anglophone countries are adapting many of their degree programs so that they can be done through what is more often called "distance learning." Then there are the various alternative teacher certification programs here in the States. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| But that's because you (and others) are still stuck back in the 20th century. |
Chancellor- I acknowledged, and respected, your opinion. I just happen to disagree with it. I'd appreciate it if you could respect mine, though you disagree, without writing it off with dismissive comments.
I'm not, as it happens, in the 20th century. (Whatever that might mean) I'm certainly not any kind of a luddite.
I'm not, in demonstrable fact, opposed to distance education. My masters (in progress) is a distance program. I have also been involved in the design and implementation of several distance education programs.
Here's a few things-
The distance cert programs I have investigated which have a teaching practicum usually try to cram it into a short space of time, which is logical for the convenience of a distance student. But having 10 hours of practice teaching in the same week is hardly the same as having a few one week, with trainer and peer feedback, a few days to plan, a few more, more feedback, more planning time, etc over a few weeks.
This may not be true of all distance certs with practicum. But it is true of the ones I've been able to find.
Also, many distance certs with teaching practicum offer you the opportunity, if traveling to their center is inconvenient, to find your own place to do practicum. SOme don't verify this with much care, which means it's really a no-practice cert with a good face lift. But even with those that do verify...who then observes you onsite? Whoever the local teacher is. And many distance cert providers will accept anybody with a TESOL/TEFL cert as this teacher. Compared to, on a decent onsite course, a trained teacher trainer with further quals and much more experience.
Again, this isn't true of all distance certs with practicum, but is true of many.
What it adds up to is that in my experience as a supervisor of teachers overseas, which is considerable, those who did an online course with practicum are still generally less well-prepared to start teaching than those who did an onsite course.
Other info, FYI-
Many of us prefer to deal with non-profit educational programs rather than for-profit, because the profit motive sometimes gets in the way of other motives. No guarantees to this, as some non-profits really are that in name only. But I've worked in both, and find many fewer barriers to educational quality in the non-profit sector.
Also, when many graduates of a certain 40 hour course say it took only 15 hours to complete, then I don't see a need to stage some "test course" to come to the conclusion that it wasn't really a 40 hour course. Likewise, if they call it a hundred hour course...
| Quote: |
| So, if an on-site course provider, e.g. a particular Trinity course provider in Canada, chooses to adapt its course so that it could be done online (with the teaching practice being done on-site), you still think it's just camoflage? I suppose you think that if a government university in the United States takes some of its degree programs (including education degrees) and adapts them so they can be done online (or, more accurately, not on-site; these programs very often still require you to buy/read real textbooks and write real papers even if the papers are submitted online), you'd think they were camoflage too? It's time to take your head out of the sand and come into the 21st century with the rest of us, Justin |
Do you mind easing off on the dismissive comments? Tell me which university allows an education degree to be completed completely online? If it's a degree that leads to licensure as a teacher, I haven't seen it.
Because all the universities I've looked into, though they have many varied distance programs, require student teaching-
And whether the degree is distance or not, the standards for the student teaching are exactly the same.
Most distance TEFL cert programs, when they have practice teaching, do not meet the same conditions for practice teaching that onsite programs do.
You seem to think that "as long as it has practice teaching, it's okay." I want to know who supervises, evaluates, and verifies the practice teaching. I also want to know the content of those precious 100 hours.
And by the way, my head ain't in the sand. My head is very much in the world of EFL teaching, which I have worked in for a fairly long time.
You can disagree, of course. But I know what I'm talking about, and I'm not just prejudicially dismissing distance learning. I'd just like distance courses to maintain the same standard as other courses.
In many universities, they do. For most TEFL cert providers, they don't.
I admitted that the blended learning idea could work. I just haven't seen the course where it does.
Justin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
