Job Discussion Forums

[digitalmc]

I received a similar offer for English First Beijing, but considering income taxes are 20% http://www.worldwide-tax.com/china/china_tax.asp and rent is not covered, I'm wondering if the 12,350 RMB would be enough to live off of AND save?

Disney in Beijing is offering 10,500RMB/month PLUS a 4,000RMD housing allowance. After reading these posts, though, still not sure if this is a "steal of a deal" considering I've read about people making 21,000 RMB monthly.

If anyone is interested in the Disney opp, the link is http://disneyenglish.disney.com.cn/en/disney_inside_why.html

I'm thinking I should hold out for an offer in S. Korea (my first choice), but competition is pretty tough for jobs in Korea right now.

Thoughts?

[vikeologist]

In the interests of balance, I'd like to point out that each EF school is going to be different, and you can't generalise. So much depends upon your managers. EFs are like all other businesses, there are commercial advantages to managing your staff well.

Simply put, the thing that cripples businesses financially is staff turnover, but especially EF schools who have to put huge amounts of money and time into recruiting teachers, and then usually having to put lots more time into training and supporting them because they're often inexperienced. Also there is nothing worse for customer satisfaction than having no (or even worse bad) teachers, which leads to loss of income.

So, at some EF schools, like the one I work for in Ningbo Jiandong, things are ok, precisely because they are a business. There's good things and bad things, which is basically as surprising as saying in a day there are mornings and afternoons. When people have bad experiences with EF, this isn't because they worked for EF. Its because their managers were incompetent inbeciles. Or maybe the teachers were incompetent imbeciles. That would work as well. Good managers will communicate with potential staff to give them a true picture of and communicate accurately what they're heading into.

There are really very few general EF issues. There are the text books which are used and the standard of professional development which are going to be relatively standard throughout EF China. Certainly anyone taking a job with EF should take note of these things as there are people with low opinions of EF training and resources. Perhaps one can comment on EF's management training. There are lots of informed comments one could make about EF, but I don't think saying that working for EF is a mistake is one of them. My hopefully informed opinion is that for some people working for some EF schools could be an excellent choice.

[vikuk]

Vikeoligist - great news - so tell us some basic EF facts -
EF wages on a per/hour basis.
How many holiday days/year?
How often do you work weekends?
How much of your work is evening work?
How many of your free-days are consecutive free-days - or do you have to take them on a one here one there basis?
Do you have to boost your weekly hours to 40 with so-called office hours.
How much promo work are you given?
And do you get your own apartment - I've heard some EF workers are supposed to share.

[vikeologist]

Per (real) teaching hour it works out about 100 yuan per hour I guess. If I was interested in money I woud still be in the UK, (where I was a manager). Yes I have to work every weekend. I have a good chinese friend who has yet to see me in daylight. I didn't want to admit that I worked for EF, so i just told her I was a vampire. However I get every Monday and Tuesday off, which is great because I'm a huge football fan.

Most of the year I don't work anywhere near 40 hours a week including office hours.

If EF used my contract to try to exploit me they could try to have me working a huge number of hours and running from piller to post. But then I would quit. Also I used to be a contract manager so I could drive them nuts.

To be honest when i arrived in China there were a few little surprises, and I did throw a wobbly one day early on, but then I realised that far from tryng to exploit me, they wanted to resolve any problems. Also, when it came to the contract I was reasonably certain that if it came to a screwing over contest I would win easily.

I'm not defending EF. I'm just saying that one can't generalise about EF schools. When there are issues adults are able to resolve them to their mutual advantage by communication. I made a calcualation that I would benefit more from my year in EF than I would have simply chasing the money. So far I've been proved to be right. When there are isses on either side we resolve them diplomatically and compromise, though it certainly helps to give the impression early on that you're a latent nutcase who is only 1 meaningless rule from throwing your dollies out of the pram. No doubt there are EF centres that treat teachers like 'slaves', but they're not going to be successful.

[vikuk]

Thanks Vikeologist - lets again go through them questions on EF and look at your answers -

EF wages on a per/hour basis - Per (real) teaching hour it works out about 100 yuan per hour I guess - I suppose Vikeoligist hasn't included those office hours and other chores - and that "I guess" answer looks very vague.

How many holiday days/year? - no answer

How often do you work weekends? - Yes I have to work every weekend.

How much of your work is evening work? - I have a good chinese friend who has yet to see me in daylight - is this because you're so knackered you sleep all day?

How many of your free-days are consecutive free-days - or do you have to take them on a one here one there basis? - However I get every Monday and Tuesday

Do you have to boost your weekly hours to 40 with so-called office hours - Most of the year I don't work anywhere near 40 hours a week including office hours - well we find there are 40hour weeks, and office hours are included in this job - so Vikeologist why not just tell us how many hours make up your average EF week?

How much promo work are you given? - no answer

And do you get your own apartment - I've heard some EF workers are supposed to share - no answer

Looks like a real dream job

[Hansen]

People running around Asia, chasing money, what kind of education do you have? Apparently not one that is of any practical value in your home country.

There was absolutely no question in my mind that China was the place for me. I hate Korean food. Thai food is good but the Chinese language is much more interesting. I also like Chinese martial arts. Of course there are other issues.

Considering culture, food, language,and experience with the people, as well as other personal matters, China was the right choice.

If you plan to make any money, you are going to have to stick around awhile. You should develop, at least, rudimentary language skills. Choose a place in whose language you have some interest.

I've been tempted to leave numerous times. There are many things about China which I absolutely hate. But I very much enjoy taiji. Good steamed baozi and porridge in the morning are hard to beat anywhere.

Kyoto, Japan, is a much nicer place to live, no doubt. If I was a linguist, I would possibly consider a career in Japan.The taiji is not happening there, however.

You need a life, whereever you end up. Simply chasing money doesn't provide much of one.

[vikuk]

[vikeologist]

Vikuk.

(OK, let's compromise).

I do have my own apartment, although if they recruit another male teacher I'd have to share, so I confess it is true that EF do sometimes sell their male teachers to traders at the end of contracts (all that talk of slavery in other posts about EF is to be taken quite literally I'm afraid).

I'm sorry I lied to you all. No male teacher should ever work for EF. On the other hand, the women teachers are treated well at my school.

I confess though that I wouldn't work for EF Urumqi after reading the following thread (just in case). It's hilarious, and may not be available once someone familiar with the word 'libel' catches sight of it.

http://www.easechinese.com/EF-English-First-A-42.html

[Afroste]

I've heard a lot of negative from EF teachers as a whole.

It's also the first time I've ever heard someone say they had to share their apartment if another male teacher came on board. I would NEVER agree to that.

[nickpellatt]

Ive never worked for EF in China but I have shared accomodation before ... and I would again in all honesty. I dont see it being a huge problem, so its almost a moot point for me.

It can be kinda lonely sometimes, so sharing isnt always going be a problem, not for me anyway ... and it hasnt been so far.

I shared dorm type rooms with a guy from Scotland initially. That was back about 3 years ago, and we became such good friends he flew out from Scotland to visit me when I was still in China. He also made a trip to visit me in England too.

My second housemate and I shared a 4 bed house together, and he also has become someone I hope will be a life long friend.

I do realise you could be unlucky ... but I still think the lunatics are in the minority. Having to share an apartment wouldnt be an issue for me, and I would guess its more likely to be an advantage for someone younger than I.

[The Ever-changing Cleric]

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

To the OP:

I did 6 months at EF in Dongying, SHandong Province. No major problems and the staff was very helpful. I have good mates working in other EF's including Dalian and Beijing. No major problems.

It's all about the staff. Saying all EF's is like saying all people with green coats are bad. Just because some people with green coats might have stolen some apples, doesn't make all green coat wearers theives.

I'd go for it--IF--- they help you with sorting out housing.

[peruisay]

[chinatwin88]

A franchise should have standardized answers.