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InterRick · Joined: 18 Jul 2009 Posts: 86

Is this just a freak occurrence (the riots, NOT the flogging), or is social unrest fomenting there? And what are the odds of movie theaters opening there anytime soon?

Saudi Arabia flogs teens after riots

johnslat · Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:19 pm Post subject:

Der InterRick,
The incident has been discussed on this thread:

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=75576

It was, indeed, a "freak occurrence," and I, for one, very much doubt it is indicative of "social unrest fomenting there," any more than the young people celebrating/protesting the win/loss of their sports team (in the videos/links I supplied) are indicative of social unrest in the US or Canada.

As for movie theaters, well, they seemingly keep trying in Jeddah, but as for it's happening anytime soon - well, that would depend on your definition of "soon."
Personally, I don't think I'd be holding my breath waiting for it.

Regards,
John

Middle East Beast · Joined: 05 Mar 2008 Posts: 836 Location: Up a tree

johnslat · Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:56 pm Post subject:

Dear Middle East Beast,

"This is a classic apples/oranges comparison."
I agree - they're both fruits.

More to the point, do you then disagree with this?

"It was, indeed, a "freak occurrence," and I, for one, very much doubt it is indicative of "social unrest fomenting there, . . ."

which, after all, was the main point.

Regards,
John

trapezius · Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:11 am Post subject:

Dear john,

I disagree with this:

johnslat · Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:23 am Post subject:

Dear trap,
We discussed this on another thread, where I wrote:

"But I agree wholeheartedly with your friend:
"Please, government, give these idiots something to do in this boring ass city- give them freedom- so they will stop doing stupid s*** like this."

and

"I definitely agree that what took place there was vandalism and, of course, quite stupid, dangerous, and destructive.

However, given the tremendous pressures of young Saudi males, the constraints, the extremely high unemployment rate, and the almost complete lack of outlets for recreation/"blowing off steam," what really surprises me is that this sort of thing doesn't happen more often. It's by no means justified - any more than ghetto riots/looting in the States were - but, as with them, it's not at all hard to understand why it happened.

so you see, I mentioned ghetto riots/looting there. I don't think we disagree about the causes BUT do you seriously see this incident as a harbinger of rebellion/revolution?

There's certainly "social unrest" in Saudi (as there is in most countries), but I, for one, can't see that hooliganism as presaging upheaval in the Kingdom.

Yes, the youth need activities, but you don't have a revolution in a country where most of the citizens drive Toyotas (or better.)
Regards,
John

desultude · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 614

There is another, related, interpretation of those events. it was Saudi National Day, and it was an attack on some of the same multinational restaurants that are attacked at anti-globalism demonstrations.

I see it as a possible convergence of politics and unchanneled adolescent male energy. I don't think either the date or the targets were coincidental. And, yes, I am wearing my silver foil hat!

trapezius · Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:17 am Post subject:

Cleopatra · Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:22 am Post subject:

trapezius · Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:36 am Post subject:

^ True, however most of the locals are either lower class or lower middle class (but there is no severe economic distress... yet!). There is not a true Saudi middle class. And if the gap between the rich and poor keeps getting bigger and bigger, and the percentage of the poor increases, again, who knows what sparks may fly a few decades from now?!

Cleopatra · Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:59 am Post subject:

johnslat · Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:19 pm Post subject:

From the link provided:

"Others reported that the youths had targeted Western brands thinking they had links to Israel.
The rampage took place on Saudi national day last week."

There were likely many different reasons, including the "mob mentality," or, as it's sometimes called, "herd behavior" - the "madness of crowds."

A large group of young people gather to celebrate something (a championship win, the end of fasting, National Day, etc.) Likely, there's no intention on the part of almost all of them to engage in destructive behavior. But then a "trigger" is pulled - one or a few in the group do some damage, maybe break a window, and a frenzy can develop.
People do things in mobs that they would never do on their own.

Regards,
John

InterRick · Joined: 18 Jul 2009 Posts: 86

Thanks for the responses. I suppose I should read more of the threads here. I also suppose, should I ever make it there, I will have more time to do so (i.e. less to do).

So then there is only speculation as to the reason for the riots? Has no one "claimed responsibility" and said, "We want ['demand' seems to strong a word to use here] X!"

And johnslat, while I appreciate your liking this to riots after sporting events in the West, those are always alcohol-fueled, something I highly doubt was the case here.

johnslat · Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:47 pm Post subject:

Dear InterRick,

" . . . those are always alcohol-fueled, something I highly doubt was the case here."

I think you might be in for something of a surprise should you ever make it to Saudi.
Cheers,
John