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lizziebennet
Joined: 24 May 2009
Posts: 355
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 Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:14 pm Post subject: Apology for my insensitivity, Cultural Tips in Saudi |
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| Talking about sex publicly is a taboo in ultraconservative Saudi Arabia. |
Sorry for starting that thread about the availability of birth control. It got out of hand and I never meant for that. Neither did I mean to offend anyone Korea, Saudi or anyone else for that matter. Please forgive me, I should have pm'd someone and will do so in the future.
Anyone got any other cultural tips. Things that one should avoid doing or speaking about. I would appreciate any advice as I want to be sensitive to the Saudi people while working in their country. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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Dear lizziebennet,
Subjects of conversation best avoided:
Sex (as mentioned above), the Royal Family, Osama bin Laden (specifically) /other religious terrorists/extremists, booze/drugs. Israel, women's rights, pork products, (other) religions (besides Islam - and be careful about what you may say about Islam) - even, depending on context, something like evolution, could be controversial.
There are probably more, but that's all I can summon up right now.
Regards,
John |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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...er...um...ALWAYS use the terms, "Arabian Gulf" and "Occupied Territories" for the "Persian Gulf" and "Israel", respectively... 
NCTBA |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| It's actually fairly simple: Avoid conversations on sex, religion or politics, and you'll be fine. As you become used to the culture, you may find exceptions to the above rule, but as a general guideline, you won't go too far wrong if you adhere to the above. |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: Apology for my insensitivity, Cultural Tips in Saudi |
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| lizziebennet wrote: |
| Anyone got any other cultural tips. Things that one should avoid doing or speaking about. I would appreciate any advice as I want to be sensitive to the Saudi people while working in their country. |
Avoid putting or using photos or posters of half-naked women or men or similar to your avatar in your classroom or in public. It will give wrong signal and you will be in a big trouble with the Sheikha Mutawaaa!  |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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Dear 007,
"Avoid putting or using photos or posters of half-naked women or men or similar to your avatar . . . "
Ah, "half-naked?" Which "half" is naked - the part that we can't see?
Regards,
John |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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All above being true, be aware that landmines DO abound...and for what one may think the most innocent of things such as, asking a saudi who's mother you've been informed was in the hospital, about how she is. He'll go absolutely apopletic! "Do not speak of my mother! She is for me!
Sheesh!
I don't know about the women, but the fellas are drama queens extrordinaire!
NCTBA |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Never, ever mention the name of a sister or mother of a Saudi in front of him. If you do, you will find yourself in the hereafter! |
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lizziebennet
Joined: 24 May 2009
Posts: 355
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| If I am a woman can I ask about your wife, mother or daughter? |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| If you're a woman teaching other women it's OK to ask about their relatives, male and female, while obviously observing normal respect for family privacy. It's also OK for you to ask a Saudi man about his female relatives, provided there are no other Saudi men present. If there are, he may be very embarrassed by the conversation. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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Avoid putting or using photos or posters of half-naked women or men or similar to your avatar in your classroom or in public.
Wow. lizziebennet's avatar looks quite conservative to me. They certainly aren't half naked - or at least not the waist-up half that's visible.
Should I wonder what's going on in the bottom half of the picture......OMG  |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| lizziebennet wrote: |
| If I am a woman can I ask about your wife, mother or daughter? |
Well, if you mean my wife or my mother, then you are welcome to ask, but not in this forum, it should be in the real world and face to face, not hidden behind a cat or a romance avatar! |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| It's also OK for you to ask a Saudi man about his female relatives, provided there are no other Saudi men present. |
The problem being of course that it's not OK for either of you to be in that situation, unless the lone Saudi man is accompanied by his wife. |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| The problem being of course that it's not OK for either of you to be in that situation, unless the lone Saudi man is accompanied by his wife. |
Not neccessarily. Men often deal with women in work situations. I have often had to deal with male Saudi admin staff in my workplace, in banks, Saudi telecom offices etc. Of course, these are practical rather than social occasions where you're likely to be discussing family matters. However, it has happened that I've got to know, for example, the male HR staff at my college quite well over the years, and it would not be inappropriate for me to ask about their family in these situations. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:56 am Post subject: Re: Apology for my insensitivity, Cultural Tips in Saudi |
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| 007 wrote: |
| Avoid putting or using photos or posters of half-naked women or men or similar to your avatar in your classroom or in public. |
Lizzie... this is a good example of the landmines that we can stumble into accidentally. While we Westerners look at that picture as a photo of a couple with the most conservative clothing we can imagine... 007 didn't really hit what the problem is... it is that they appear about to kiss. Those of us who have read the novel or seen the movies consider this story so modest sexually... a few kisses between the romantic leads... amazingly innocent story to us.
We have discussed this topic in the past, before you joined, but the society in the Gulf do not separate kisses from intercourse. Both are to be kept in private and not even your own children should witness kisses between parents. (let's ignore for a moment the fact that they have satellite TV these days and can see darn near anything.) In Egypt and some of the other Gulf countries, one could actually use Pride and Prejudice in the classroom of all women without cutting out the kisses... but Saudi? No way... you would get in big trouble.
So... they are 100% clothed... but about to kiss... Haram!!
VS |
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