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Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
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 Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:33 am Post subject: |
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What JZer is saying about the open work permit in Japan and the multiple-employer possibility in Taiwan is correct. If you have an absolute fire lit under your ass, you can make a bucketload in either Taiwan OR Japan and it's legal (or almost impossible to get busted if it's not legal), unlike Korea.
I just question how a person could endure the number of teaching hours necessary to make Taiwan or Japan more profitable than Korea. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I just question how a person could endure the number of teaching hours necessary to make Taiwan or Japan more profitable than Korea. |
Rooster_2006, I agree that working like this might not be for everyone. At the same time, working 30 to 40 hours in Taiwan would be just has many hours at work as in Korea. Most public schools and some hogwons require you to be at school no matter if you are teaching or not.
For me and I am sure that for some others spending from 8AM to 4PM in a Korean public school is worse than actually teaching more hours. |
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jgmodlin
Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 120
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 3:33 am Post subject: |
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I never have figured out why people teaching in places like Japan or Taiwan want to put all of their eggs in one basket by working for just one school. It just seems to make better sense on a couple of levels to work for more than one: not beholden to one employer and usually a better hourly rate.
In Tokyo I worked around 15 hours of corporate classes through two dispatch companies at 4500 yen per hour and around 15 hours of privates at an average of 3000 per hour. My tranportation was covered sometimes two-fold by the dispatch comanies. My two room apartment 20 minutes from the Yamanote line cost about 80,000 yen a month.
So:
Wages: 450,000
Apartment: 80,000
Transportation: 0
Food: 50,000
Bills:30,000
Taxes (only on corporate classes): 30,000
280,000 yen = $2800 a month to save, blow, or whatever (I always sent $2000 back to my savings in the US.
I often wonder why anyone would fool with going to Korea. Does Taiwan have some people cobbling together a good schedule like this? I would think this would be pretty doable in Taiwan or perhaps even Vietnam.
Another nice benefit to working this way instead of hanging one employer around your neck is that when it comes time to take a vacation somewhere you can a) afford it and b) just announce that you'll be off the week of such and such and since you're spread out it doesn't have much impact on any one employer. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:47 am Post subject: |
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jgmodlin, the one thing you are missing about Taiwan is that one employer still owns your visa. If they want they can cancel our visa. It is possible to find someone that will sponsor your visa and only require you to work 6 to 10 hours a week for them. The rest of the time is yours.
I don't know that it is possible to make 4500 yen per hour unless you open up your own class in your home or rent out a room.
106,000 NT a month is doable. You could save $2,000US a month and live on 40,000NT. Since an apartment in Taipei only cost 40,000 Yen or less, you can live on less money in Taipei than Tokyo. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:53 am Post subject: |
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Taipei expenses 8,000 to 10,000 for a studio apartment/ roof top apartment. You can get an apartment for 6,000 but that is usually pretty crappy.
100NT for a cheap meal (Chinese food is around 100NT) Western food will cost you more.
McDonalds 115NT for a meal.
Fried Rice 60NT
Cell phone 1000 to 2000NT
Transportation- It will vary depending how close your apartment is to your job.
Taxes -6% on legal jobs |
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Solar Strength
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 557
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| jgmodlin wrote: |
I never have figured out why people teaching in places like Japan or Taiwan want to put all of their eggs in one basket by working for just one school. It just seems to make better sense on a couple of levels to work for more than one: not beholden to one employer and usually a better hourly rate.
In Tokyo I worked around 15 hours of corporate classes through two dispatch companies at 4500 yen per hour and around 15 hours of privates at an average of 3000 per hour. My tranportation was covered sometimes two-fold by the dispatch comanies. My two room apartment 20 minutes from the Yamanote line cost about 80,000 yen a month.
So:
Wages: 450,000
Apartment: 80,000
Transportation: 0
Food: 50,000
Bills:30,000
Taxes (only on corporate classes): 30,000
280,000 yen = $2800 a month to save, blow, or whatever (I always sent $2000 back to my savings in the US.
I often wonder why anyone would fool with going to Korea. Does Taiwan have some people cobbling together a good schedule like this? I would think this would be pretty doable in Taiwan or perhaps even Vietnam.
Another nice benefit to working this way instead of hanging one employer around your neck is that when it comes time to take a vacation somewhere you can a) afford it and b) just announce that you'll be off the week of such and such and since you're spread out it doesn't have much impact on any one employer. |
I agree.
The great thing about Japan is that teachers obtain a 3 year visa normally without it being tied to their employer.
After their visas expire, teachers can also go and self-sponsor their own visas. Again, this means that you are the sole holder of your work visa. It is not tied to any school that employs you.
That means a teacher can quit his or her job and walk down the street and get another job, at any kind of school, without having to go any government agencies or immigration to change their visa status.
It's just so much easier in Japan to quit or change jobs in Japan. And the 3 year work visa also makes Japan a great place to TEFL.
The comments about not being tied to one employer I agree with. It doesn't make sense. There is just too much work in a place like Tokyo to be tied down to a single school at Y250, 000 a month and having to be at school for 25 hours or more a week.
Instead, work for several schools, a higher hourly rates. Make more money.
I too lived 10 - 15 minutes walk from the Yamanote Line near Yoyogi Station. I had more work in Tokyo (privates, high schools, corporates, university classes, language schools) than I needed.
Y450, 000 is a good salary and after a few years, I was able to work that up to about 550, 000 - 600, 000 once I got my schedule sorted.
The key in Tokyo is, as you are there over time, to work less but at higher hourly rates. |
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jgmodlin
Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 120
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The key in Tokyo is, as you are there over time, to work less but at higher hourly rates. |
Very well put! I never could understand those who would flog themselves with 25 to 30 hours at a school for 250,000 yen and complain about it everyday. I remember hearing several times, "I would work freelance but then I wouldn't have any paid vacation!". Well, the math works that out pretty quickly: 250,000 and 10 paid days off with a handful of national holidays (some paid or not) or 450,000+ and no paid holidays. That extra 200,000 yen or more can buy a whole bunch of "paid" vacation days!
It still sounds like you could do more or less the same thing in Taiwan by having two employers (keep their hours down to a minimum) and fill in with privates. The only thing I don't seem to hear about in Taiwan are corporate classes taught on site. In Tokyo these 6 month contracts are a dependable and pretty lucrative source of income. Is anyone out there doing corporate classes in Taipei? |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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I don't do cooperate classes and maybe I am in he dark but most cooperate classes are done through an agency. The agency will take a cut and the teacher is probably left with 800NT to 1000NT(around $30). That is no where near 4500 Yuan.
But of course Taiwan beats Korea. While it may not technically be legal you can teach privates in front of the police and nothing will be done about it. |
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jkazz7
Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 16
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:51 am Post subject: |
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Rooster,
Is it true you can apply for a residency permit after 5 years? I'd never heard of that - great if true!
Where can you get info on it?
thx
| Rooster_2006 wrote: |
You'll save more money in Korea.
I would never teach in Korea again, but you asked which place has the most money for EFL teachers, and it's Korea.
In Korea, you'll start off at $2,000 a month (2.3 million won) with free housing.
In Taiwan, you'll start off with about $1,800 a month (60,000 NTD) WITHOUT free housing. And the trouble with Taiwan is that if your employer cuts your hours, your pay will go down, because in Taiwan, pay is hourly, not monthly like in Korea.
That said, I'd still pick Taiwan over Korea any day. I've lived in five different countries, and Korea is the most xenophobic place I've ever lived, and you're reminded of it every five minutes in people's behavior, government policies, etc.
Essentially, if you work in Korea, you're selling your soul for a few hundred extra bucks a month. Trust me. I lived there for five years. I didn't really realize how much I'd been missing out on until I moved to Taiwan.
In Taiwan, you can have up to three jobs, register two of those as your ARC-supporting schools (i.e. you get fired or the school closes and you can stay in Taiwan with the other school and not have to do a visa run), you can apply for permanent residency after five years, it's tropical, the cost of living is extremely low (I rent for $106.45 a month with an ocean view), etc. Not to mention that Chinese is a vastly more useful language to learn.
I'll take those privileges over a few extra bucks every time. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| There is information on www.tealit.com which tells about the permanent residence in Taiwan. |
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Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| jkazz7 wrote: |
Rooster,
Is it true you can apply for a residency permit after 5 years? I'd never heard of that - great if true!
Where can you get info on it?
thx
| Rooster_2006 wrote: |
You'll save more money in Korea.
I would never teach in Korea again, but you asked which place has the most money for EFL teachers, and it's Korea.
In Korea, you'll start off at $2,000 a month (2.3 million won) with free housing.
In Taiwan, you'll start off with about $1,800 a month (60,000 NTD) WITHOUT free housing. And the trouble with Taiwan is that if your employer cuts your hours, your pay will go down, because in Taiwan, pay is hourly, not monthly like in Korea.
That said, I'd still pick Taiwan over Korea any day. I've lived in five different countries, and Korea is the most xenophobic place I've ever lived, and you're reminded of it every five minutes in people's behavior, government policies, etc.
Essentially, if you work in Korea, you're selling your soul for a few hundred extra bucks a month. Trust me. I lived there for five years. I didn't really realize how much I'd been missing out on until I moved to Taiwan.
In Taiwan, you can have up to three jobs, register two of those as your ARC-supporting schools (i.e. you get fired or the school closes and you can stay in Taiwan with the other school and not have to do a visa run), you can apply for permanent residency after five years, it's tropical, the cost of living is extremely low (I rent for $106.45 a month with an ocean view), etc. Not to mention that Chinese is a vastly more useful language to learn.
I'll take those privileges over a few extra bucks every time. |
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My former boss at Hess was a white guy who got the APRC with five years of continuous residency. He said he could have also gotten it through marriage, but there was less paperwork if he just got it based on the five years (no criminal background check is necessary for the latter). |
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Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:06 am Post subject: |
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JZer, do you know a secret that I don't?
My main school is giving me ten hours this week.
That's 20,000 NTD per month. Even Korea's TaLK Program is more lucrative than that.
Even if I cut up and boil my sneakers and eat them with sawdust, I won't be saving more than 300 American dollars next month. Rent is 3,500 (thank God I chose a cheap place), transportation is nearly free, and *maybe* I can eat on 100 NTD a day.
How do you rack up 30 or 40 teaching hours when every school wants you to work on Wednesday and Friday, and when every kindergarten or elementary school position is being held by people with teaching degrees and home country teacher's licenses? My CELTA looks like a piece of scrap paper here... |
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yamahuh
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 1033
Location: Karaoke Hell
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| Rooster_2006 wrote: |
In Taiwan, you'll start off with about $1,800 a month (60,000 NTD) WITHOUT free housing. And the trouble with Taiwan is that if your employer cuts your hours, your pay will go down, because in Taiwan, pay is hourly, not monthly like in Korea.
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My $68000 NT base is currently worth $2,246 Canadian per month.
2.3 million Korean Won, which seems to be an average wage, is currently worth $2,115. A friend of mine is subsidizing his wage here by teaching a few hours of privates a week and is pulling in over $88000 NT a month which is $2907. Rent is cheap outside of Taipei and you can easily find a decent place for $10,000 NT.
Everything I've heard about Korea points to longer working hours and dissatisfaction. Can you save more money there? Possibly, but in Taiwan if you want to save more you can very easily pick up privates. Also I'd like to point out that Rooster made somewhat of a mistake; while it's true that an hourly wage will result in less money if your hours are cut, a salaried position does not and there are just as many schools offering salaries as there are ones offering hourly employment. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| How do you rack up 30 or 40 teaching hours when every school wants you to work on Wednesday and Friday, and when every kindergarten or elementary school position is being held by people with teaching degrees and home country teacher's licenses? My CELTA looks like a piece of scrap paper here... |
Well you can add 30,000 a month by working at a Kindy. I also have a Saturday job that pays 1,000 an hour.
I may have a new Saturday job next semester. It will be every week, three hours, 800 an hour. |
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yamahuh
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 1033
Location: Karaoke Hell
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:29 am Post subject: |
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Forgot to mention that we also get partially subsidized plane flight and end of contract bonuses worth over $40K NT so really the only downside in our particular instance is having to pay rent which would be covered in Korea. When it comes right down to it we might be able to save a little more in Korea but I've heard so many negatives about working there that I'm not sure I'd be willing to commit a year of my life to a potentially crappy situation just to be able to save a grand or two more than I can here.
That being said the potential for crappy situations exists here too...  |
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