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Gaijin Complex
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SoulCal



Joined: 03 Aug 2009
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ bailemos

Staring is rude in Japan, people know this. They often stare at you for a number of reasons:

1. Curiosity
2. Contempt
3. Mental Illness
4. Perversion/Voyuerism
5. Plain rudeness

Some Japanese people may act like they didnt know it was inappropriate, but dont fall for that BS. If you want to get the Japanese to stop staring at you, simply raise your voice at them and make a bit of a scene. Japanese people hate to have the eyes of others on them (oh, the irony), and 99% of the time, they will quickly turn away in embarrassment.

Ive had many experiences like this, either while I was talking at a moderate volume or not talking at all, and I had the balls to speak up about it. The result left the Japanese person (usually older people and salarymen) embarrassed or speechless, and I was able to carry on feeling a lot better. Bottom line, dont let a**holes intimidate you because you have different physical characteristics. Make the experience a public example, its the only way the Japanese will really learn not to do it; otherwise, theyll keep trying to be subtle and sneaky about it and expect to get away with it.

As you can tell, I hate that sh1t Mad , but I take care of business when it happens Twisted Evil Cool
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cornishmuppet



Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 642
Location: Nagano, Japan

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just glare back and say 'nani?' in a threatening voice. Or to really embaress them, stick your tongue out!
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Cool Teacher



Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 930
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cornishmuppet wrote:
Just glare back and say 'nani?' in a threatening voice. Or to really embaress them, stick your tongue out!


Or do a moon! Laughing Give the spectators something to stare at! Laughing Cool
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gaijinalways



Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Or do a moon! Give the spectators something to stare at!



http://www.japantoday.com/category/crime/view/10-keio-univ-students-face-charges-for-streaking-through-station

Shades of Keio freshmen!
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bailemos wrote:
When Im on the train w bf or other friends, people sometimes (or often) look and (maybe listen) when we are talking etc.
I have found that many foreigners don't realize how loud they are talking...

Quote:
But if Im just sitting on the train its a little unnerving to look up from ipod-land
Depends on how loud you are playing the iPod...
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Tomasama



Joined: 18 Mar 2005
Posts: 18
Location: au

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:11 pm    Post subject: An Outside Perspective Reply with quote

When I was living an working in Japan being treated differently started to wear on me but now I realise it was mainly cultural fatigue. A quick fix would have been to go back home for holidays and see my family.

Let me pose a question,
would you rather be passively treated a little different once and a while by some poor unfortunate soul who's never had the chance to travel outside their country
or
would you prefer once and a while to be sworn at and abused when you refuse to give money to a beggar for his next drink or get told your a $%^$ white %#$ and threatened with violence by the local indigenous population?
Welcome to Australia!
I just came back from a three week holiday in Japan and I understand why I got a lot of stares. I really feel sorry for the Japanese, so many nihonjin are completely isolated from people outside of Japan.
The closest they ever get is by staring at someone on a train!
I'm guessing that for a lot of people, the only interaction they see is foreigners on TV.
I caught up with some Japanese friends who had been in Australia on a working holiday visa and returned.
They told me that since returning to Japan, they had absolutely no reason or opportunity to speak English.
Perhaps you could ask yourself, if I were fluent in Japanese and not teaching English rather I was doing some other line or work, would be people around me speak English at all?

I hope what I'm saying makes sense and you muster a little sympathy。 Next time give them a smile and say 今日は。
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starteacher



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 237

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Tomosama. A bit of positive thinking is all that is needed to get you through the days.

The world changes when YOU change. You cannot change others, but you can change yourself. Wink
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natsume



Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 409
Location: Chongqing, China

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:07 pm    Post subject: Re: An Outside Perspective Reply with quote

Tomasama wrote:

Let me pose a question,
would you rather be passively treated a little different once and a while by some poor unfortunate soul who's never had the chance to travel outside their country
or
would you prefer once and a while to be sworn at and abused when you refuse to give money to a beggar for his next drink or get told your a $%^$ white %#$ and threatened with violence by the local indigenous population?
Welcome to Australia!


Or New York City!
I am always a little confused by threads like this.

I worked in downtown San Francisco for over 10 years, and it was a given that I would have some sort of unpleasant encounter with...something...on a daily basis. I find the occasionally stare, and perhaps the very occasional encounter with a truly rude nihonjin, to be a refreshing change of pace, in my experience. And yes, axxxoles exist in Japan, just like anywhere else. Note it and move on.


Last edited by natsume on Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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gaijinalways



Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

natsume posted
Quote:
I am always a little confused by threads like this.


Uh, and I by statements like that. Cool

Sorry, I seem to get those unpleasant encounters on a more regular basis here in Tokyo. Where as in NYC, people usually don't want to bother with it. So you're a foreigner here? Who isn't?

Tomasama posted
Quote:
would you rather be passively treated a little different once and a while by some poor unfortunate soul who's never had the chance to travel outside their country or
would you prefer once and a while to be sworn at and abused when you refuse to give money to a beggar for his next drink or get told your a $%^$ white %#$ and threatened with violence by the local indigenous population?


Do I have a choice? Twisted Evil I didn't encounter threatening beggers in OZ (or Dorothy, sorry couldn't resist), but I did see a few. And they weren't Aboriginal either.

And I do have to wonder, never had a chance to travel abroad or were not interested or inclined to travel outside their own prefecture in some cases (yes, I met some of those)!
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Cool Teacher



Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 930
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:04 am    Post subject: Re: An Outside Perspective Reply with quote

natsume wrote:
I am always a little confused by threads like this.


Yeah I think this thread is abit judgementalist. Confused

I was just joking about the mooning by the way. And I definitely don't have the balls to do a streak.
Shocked
Speaking of Balls:

Quote:
Some Japanese people may act like they didnt know it was inappropriate, but dont fall for that BS. If you want to get the Japanese to stop staring at you, simply raise your voice at them and make a bit of a scene. Japanese people hate to have the eyes of others on them (oh, the irony), and 99% of the time, they will quickly turn away in embarrassment.

Ive had many experiences like this, either while I was talking at a moderate volume or not talking at all, and I had the balls to speak up about it. The result left the Japanese person (usually older people and salarymen) embarrassed or speechless, and I was able to carry on feeling a lot better. Bottom line, dont let a**holes intimidate you because you have different physical characteristics. Make the experience a public example,
Quote:
Quote:
its the only way the Japanese will really learn not to do it
; otherwise, theyll keep trying to be subtle and sneaky about it and expect to get away with it.

As you can tell, I hate that sh1t , but I take care of business when it happens


This is a bit cheeky I think and some people in Japan are just used to a different way. I get embarrassed by gaijin(s) who make a big scene. Confused

This is patronising:

Quote:
its the only way the Japanese will really learn not to do it


It makes you sound like you care about there education or something but really you are just being rude. Please be a good ambasador for your country. Wink
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Cool Teacher



Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 930
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gaijinalways wrote:
And I do have to wonder, never had a chance to travel abroad or were not interested or inclined to travel outside their own prefecture in some cases (yes, I met some of those)!


I think there is propaganda that the world is dangerous. Shocked Japan is the safety country. Wink I think this is reinforced by the few foreigners they meet who blare: "What are you *@+#ing staring at?!?!?!?" at them when they are curious. Cool
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gaijinalways



Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gaijinalways wrote:
Quote:
And I do have to wonder, never had a chance to travel abroad or were not interested or inclined to travel outside their own prefecture in some cases (yes, I met some of those)!


cool teacher responded
Quote:
I think there is propaganda that the world is dangerous. Japan is the safety country. I think this is reinforced by the few foreigners they meet who blare: "What are you *@+#ing staring at?!?!?!?" at them when they are curious.


Actually the two issues may not be related, but I have talked to some Japanese who haven't been abroad, but it's not a time/money issue, it's more lack of interest in traveling outside of Japan (and sometimes out of their prefecture and perhaps the prefecture of their spouse). Personally, I don't bother talking to people who stare. I just know you get it a lot more in Japan. And yet Japanese people will tell you it's rude to stare, so why would people do something that people generally think is rude? Gotta wonder.

As to the mistaken moniker of 'safety country', ask Lindsay Hawker's family about it. They, not surprisingly, may have a different opinion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lindsay_Hawker
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mitsui



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

my wife is Japanese and she gets stared at. Maybe because she was speaking Osaka ben, or she looks Korean who knows.
This happens in Tokyo.
Tokyo isn`t a tolerent place. Lots of people are from rural areas and they want to fit in and act cool. Many Tokyo people look down on other people because of the way they look or way they speak Japanese.

Tokyo is the capital yet it reminds me of places in rural Ohio where minorities stick out.
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seklarwia



Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe it's a major city thing with regards to low tolerance.

But out of all the major cities I've been to, Tokyo seems the least openly hostile for minorites (aka all foreigners)... I can deal with a bit of staring and the odd ignorantly racist comment.

Being as rare as they come (that 'other' box on those horrendous ethnicity forms that are so loved in the UK was obiviously created for me Wink ) I often get mistaken for the "wrong" minority and have ended up on the receiving end of many not very pleasant encounters in many a major city. There was being mistaken for a muslim with no head scarf in Granada which meant male muslims tried to pick me up for money. There was being mistaken for a south american in Madrid which meant men in general trying to pick me up for money. I got mistaken for a possible illegal immigrant from Africa in Paris, which meant being picked up by the police (at least not for money this time). London presented me with a scar down my back from being attacked with a bottle by some guy who thought I was from Sudan. In Beijing I had a guy chat me up using a load of racial insults that he genuinely believed were compliments (which they were in a really twisted way, if I despised my own heritage... or what he believed my heritage to be anyway)... and so on and so forth.

Staring is nothing. Be grown up and ignore it.

I'm going to agree with Glenski. Sometimes there are reasons other than being a foreigner that might get you stares. I myself have found my attention drawn to other foreigners when they are speaking really loudly to each other, etc.

And when you are getting stared at despite truely doing nothing wrong (going with cool teacher now) making a scene is not the way to deal with it.

If you can't ignore it, go with the more subtle ways of dealing with it that have been suggested. Making eye contact on trains really does work. On train and in public, a polite konnichiwa normally gets the starer to scurry away or turn their attention elsewhere. Sometimes a greeting will actually show starers that you aren't some wierd and wonderful zoo creature - I even had one old woman chatting away to me, even though initially she had taken the seat next to me and turned to stare literally under my nose.
If the staring persists, get up and move or close your eyes.

Staring may be rude, but it's not a crime. Retaliating in an aggressive/intimidating manner however will likely just give even more people cause to stare and may even get you into a world of trouble. Plus, it just adds to the already negative gaijin stereotype.
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Cool Teacher



Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 930
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here here seklawaria! Very Happy

Perfect! Very Happy
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