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Chancellor
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1337
Location: Ji'an, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)
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 Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: Similar questions |
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| QueenJane wrote: |
Hi! This is my first post. I have similar questions - I'm a woman in my mid50s and am wondering if age will be a major consideration. Obviously, sex does make a difference. I'm considering first Mexico, as I live now in California. I also need to be able to make enough money to live on.
I have a BA in Economics from University of Maryland, and an MBA from Golden Gate University. I've always worked in corporate environments, although in support staff positions, not management. I've taught people one on one in using computer programs, but not in front of a classroom, nor languages.
The TESOL Certificate course I just took is a 60 hr. 'intensive' through Oxford Seminars. It did not include actual teaching time in front of actual foreign language speakers, only class members. The teacher was excellent and the materials seemed good, but I was less than impressed by the fact that huge amounts of material were gone over very quickly, with literally no chance to absorb and improve. It seems clear to me that there is a great deal to learn about being a competent teacher - much more than what a 60 hr. program can really cover. Oxford has a placement service which virtually guarantees you a job - but what job where? I would like to teach Business English to adults or college age students.
Questions:
> Will being a mid50s woman be a big hindrance in finding a job in particular countries (I am not considering the Middle Eastern countries)?
> With the qualifications I have now, what sort of salary might I expect?
> Should I take additional training - the Cambridge sponsored CELTA program seems like a good possible choice - before even attempting to find a job?
> Are there teaching Business English courses/programs that are better than others?
> What other questions should I be asking?
Thanks! [/b] |
At least one of your questions will be answered here: http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=75752 |
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coledavis
Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1838
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:06 am Post subject: Re: Similar questions |
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| QueenJane wrote: |
Hi! This is my first post. I have similar questions - I'm a woman in my mid50s and am wondering if age will be a major consideration. Obviously, sex does make a difference. I'm considering first Mexico, as I live now in California. I also need to be able to make enough money to live on.
I have a BA in Economics from University of Maryland, and an MBA from Golden Gate University. I've always worked in corporate environments, although in support staff positions, not management. I've taught people one on one in using computer programs, but not in front of a classroom, nor languages.
The TESOL Certificate course I just took is a 60 hr. 'intensive' through Oxford Seminars. It did not include actual teaching time in front of actual foreign language speakers, only class members. The teacher was excellent and the materials seemed good, but I was less than impressed by the fact that huge amounts of material were gone over very quickly, with literally no chance to absorb and improve. It seems clear to me that there is a great deal to learn about being a competent teacher - much more than what a 60 hr. program can really cover. Oxford has a placement service which virtually guarantees you a job - but what job where? I would like to teach Business English to adults or college age students.
Questions:
> Will being a mid50s woman be a big hindrance in finding a job in particular countries (I am not considering the Middle Eastern countries)?
> With the qualifications I have now, what sort of salary might I expect?
> Should I take additional training - the Cambridge sponsored CELTA program seems like a good possible choice - before even attempting to find a job?
> Are there teaching Business English courses/programs that are better than others?
> What other questions should I be asking?
Thanks! [/b] |
Re 'obviously sex making a difference': I'm not sure it's that obvious in teaching. Some employers (see the ads on this web site) actually prefer female teachers. As for age, I think the attitude of the individual employer is more to the point than the country, although there are some that actively discriminate negatively (China is one).
CELTA will probably just be a re-run of the course you already have, even if it is a bit more popular with employers.
Teaching Business English might be a good idea and may attract some employers. While I strongly criticise people who consider online training for their initial training, you might want to do such a course for the purposes of boning up on business English teaching, although a good book or two might be better.
I can't speak about Mexico. But you might want to get some experience under your hat with an employer that takes newbies. Why not Moscow? BKC-IH takes new TEFLers and I rather think your business background may prove very useful. |
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The Ever-changing Cleric
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 1523
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:53 am Post subject: Re: Similar questions |
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| coledavis wrote: |
| QueenJane wrote: |
Hi! This is my first post. I have similar questions - I'm a woman in my mid50s and am wondering if age will be a major consideration. Obviously, sex does make a difference. I'm considering first Mexico, as I live now in California. I also need to be able to make enough money to live on.
Thanks! [/b] |
Re 'obviously sex making a difference': I'm not sure it's that obvious in teaching. Some employers (see the ads on this web site) actually prefer female teachers. As for age, I think the attitude of the individual employer is more to the point than the country, although there are some that actively discriminate negatively (China is one). |
cole, have you ever worked in esl in china? the thread linked to below will help dispel any myth of age discrimination in china:
Am I too old for China?
other countries in asia are far more discriminatory than china ever will be, korea for one.
i've worked at four schools over a period of nearly six years and every one of those places had at least one teacher over 55 years of age, the oldest being 70. i recommend queen jane go to the china forum and see how many of the teachers active in that forum are over 50. the number may be surprising. anyone with some china experience will see that age discrimination is clearly not a big problem in china. |
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coledavis
Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1838
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| I may be wrong, and I beg forgiveness if this is so, but what about the Chinese visa restrictions on older people? I keep seeing these in advertising for jobs in China. |
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The Ever-changing Cleric
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 1523
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| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| coledavis wrote: |
| I may be wrong, and I beg forgiveness if this is so, but what about the Chinese visa restrictions on older people? I keep seeing these in advertising for jobs in China. |
i havent looked at a job ad for a few years so dont know what some schools are posting there. if you could provide a couple of examples i'd be happy to look at them.
the only restrictions i've heard about on older foreigners (that is, those over 65-70 years old) are that schools in china dont want to hire them now since it can be risky to give them health insurance. one FAO told me earlier this year that one elderly foreign teacher died while at the job and it caused some kind of kerfuffle.... not sure of the details.
there are no Z visa restrictions on older foreigners coming to china. the sheer number of middle aged/seniors teaching in china are proof of that. |
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coledavis
Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1838
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| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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A selection from the last couple of weeks on the Chinese job board of this web site:
"Preferably 22-45 years old"
"Under 60 years of age and in good health"
"Note: Due to Chinese working visa requirements we can only employee
candidates aged between 24 and 55"
This last posting was by English First. |
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The Ever-changing Cleric
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 1523
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| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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i dont think those first two ads show age discrimination. in the first one, "Preferrably 22-45 years old" in china just means "we'd like younger people but will take anyone we can get."
the second one you listed, "under 60 and in good health" is pretty much standard anywhere in the world.
as for the job ad by English First (EF), i dont think they're correct in saying the age limit for a work visa is 55, there are plenty of FTs in china who came on a Z working visa who are over 55. I think that's EFs way of discouraging older people from applying. but that's only EF and most older people probably wouldnt want to work for them anyway since they grind more work out of you week in and week out.
most public universities, where the workload is a lot lighter, aren't too concerned with age unless you're pushing 65 or more. these are the places where many foreign teachers in china prefer to work. |
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