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coledavis
Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1838
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 Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| Re universities paying higher: note that this is not the case in Russia, where private schools pay twice as much as universities. |
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USAMATHMAN
Joined: 01 Oct 2009
Posts: 72
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:41 pm Post subject: ESL as a career |
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| I agree. Universities generally tend to pay better salaries than most private & public schools. |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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Like everything else, though, there's a big range amongst universities.
Here in Ecuador, there are a few unis that pay VERY well, but not most.
Honestly, private high schools pay more across the board.
Best,
Justin |
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Hadit
Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Posts: 109
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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To use one example, I really love the Sanskrit derived languages, and especially the devanagari script, and would love to be immersed in that culture. The only way I could make decent money in India would be to get certified and apply to an international school. An MA without certification wouldn't help.
So one should think about one's long term goals and where one wants to end up very soon into one's ESL career. I have seen it said that ME international schools pay about the same as universities, but in the latter one has less working hours. So, for good paying maximum mobility, becoming a certified teacher seems to be the smartest move, because again MA degrees are not of great use in some countries.
If you know where you want to end up for sure, then it will be easy to ascertain what credentials are necessary for the best teaching jobs.
Getting back to my example, I could also entertain getting an MA and experience making good money in the ME as a career goal, with the intent to settle down in India, where the salary would go a long way. This, rather than eeking out a living there, a scenario which applies for any low paying country. Or, to reiterate, I could become a certified teacher and in time get a fairly well paying international school job in just about any country. |
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spanglish
Joined: 21 May 2009
Posts: 742
Location: working on that
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| I think a key question is whether it's foreign or local money paying your salary, which would help explain why a certified teacher (in any subject) usually makes more than one with a masters in ESL. |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| why a certified teacher (in any subject) usually makes more than one with a masters in ESL. |
I think this is an oversimplification, and does vary from country to country and situation to situation.
Not to put too fine a point on it, though- another significant career question is: What do you want to do?
I have taught in elementary schools and in high schools, and probably will not choose to do so again.
I really enjoy university work, teacher training, and ESP.
SO...even if it's the lower paid option (here in Ecuador, it probabkly is, but my experience of Asia says it's not), I should probably go MA TESOL and not state teaching license, right?
Best,
Justin |
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spanglish
Joined: 21 May 2009
Posts: 742
Location: working on that
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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Another benefit of a teaching license is it gives you a better shot at a decent career in your own country. But of course, teaching at the K-12 level had better be something you want to do. And yes, I too would rather do university work or teach professionals than work in an elementary or high school.
But this wasn't my original point. |
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Hadit
Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Posts: 109
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Justin Trullinger"]
| Quote: |
| Not to put too fine a point on it, though- another significant career question is: What do you want to do? |
Good point. Knowing who you like to teach, if there is a strong preference there, would certainly decide one's career development: whether to become a certified teacher (K-12) or to get an MA (university). If one prefers university teaching, this will limit where one can teach, and in some cases pay less: a fact that surprised me originally when researching the ESL job market.
Let's see, a quick run down yields this:
*All of Latin America: K-12 international schools pay the best. A few universities pay good.
*Korea: K-12 international schools pay the best I imagine. Universities pay about the same as public schools.
*Taiwan: Uni's pay worse and it's hard to get on.
*Viet Nam: Uni's pay is the same or worse as regular jobs.
*Thailand: Uni's pay is the same or worse as regular jobs.
*China: Uni pay is less than regular jobs, but low hours and housing make the job decent or preferable.
*Indonesia: Uni jobs largely taken by the native populace.
*ME: Uni pay is similar to K-12 international, but for less hours. The ME seems to be the only exception to where uni jobs outweigh international school work from the above list. |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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I imagine to go too much further into this is going to get down to comparing specific jobs, which would be fairly pointless. A couple of things I've noticed, though:
| Quote: |
*All of Latin America: K-12 international schools pay the best. A few universities pay good. |
Only worked in Ecuador. The majoring of high paying jobs are international K-12 schools, but some private unis pay as well or in some cases better. Depends on quals and connections.
| Quote: |
| *Korea: K-12 international schools pay the best I imagine. Universities pay about the same as public schools. |
My Korea experience is sort of limited, but here goes. I was there for two months last year, doing teacher training through a university. Pay was considerably better than what I see international schools advertising for. In part, though, this is probably due to being a short term "jobbed in" person, rather than contract staff. But from what I see advertised, the good university jobs in Korea appear to pay better than most international schools. (The unis that require MAs. Those that hire BA holders, any subject, for EFL programs are generally bottom of the barrel.)
Best,
Justin |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:03 am Post subject: |
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| Hadit wrote: |
Let's see, a quick run down yields this:
*All of Latin America: K-12 international schools pay the best. A few universities pay good.
*Korea: K-12 international schools pay the best I imagine. Universities pay about the same as public schools.
*Taiwan: Uni's pay worse and it's hard to get on.
*Viet Nam: Uni's pay is the same or worse as regular jobs.
*Thailand: Uni's pay is the same or worse as regular jobs.
*China: Uni pay is less than regular jobs, but low hours and housing make the job decent or preferable.
*Indonesia: Uni jobs largely taken by the native populace.
*ME: Uni pay is similar to K-12 international, but for less hours. The ME seems to be the only exception to where uni jobs outweigh international school work from the above list. |
One thing you forgot is hours. For example, you said unis and public schools pay the same. That's right, but you'll be working lot less at unis, and will get 3 months vacation, compared to about 2 weeks.
What I mean is that I earned 1500usd at an international school here in LIma. was on the lowest foreign pay rung for one reason: marriage to a Peruvian. Taught 31 hours a week, and was at school from 7am until 430pm.
I worked at a uni, 18 hours and earned 800usd. No office hours. taught and went home.
You have to take that into account as well. Money, as I'm finding out, isn't everything.
If you get a decent paying job, with low hours, you can fill your time with privates and probably make more than those at intl schools. I know that just by teaching privates, I'm making more than when I was at an international school, And to boot, I'm an academic consulatant for two publishing companies and give Cambridge oral exams. Both of these bring in extra cash. And are great to put on your CV. |
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Hadit
Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Posts: 109
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| One thing you forgot is hours. For example, you said unis and public schools pay the same. That's right, but you'll be working lot less at unis, and will get 3 months vacation, compared to about 2 weeks. |
Yep, that is a major difference. I was going to state it preceding my comparison but forgot to.
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| Money, as I'm finding out, isn't everything. |
Absolutely! See you in China hehe. With your present MA you are teaching uni in Peru? You could go to China or Korea also I would think. Probably some places in the ME too.
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| If you get a decent paying job, with low hours, you can fill your time with privates and probably make more than those at intl schools. |
Another good point. Time is precious.
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| I'm an academic consulatant for two publishing companies and give Cambridge oral exams. Both of these bring in extra cash. And are great to put on your CV. |
How does one go about becoming trained to give Cambrige oral exams? |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:31 am Post subject: |
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| Hadit wrote: |
Absolutely! See you in China hehe. With your present MA you are teaching uni in Peru? You could go to China or Korea also I would think. Probably some places in the ME too.
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| I'm an academic consulatant for two publishing companies and give Cambridge oral exams. Both of these bring in extra cash. And are great to put on your CV. |
How does one go about becoming trained to give Cambrige oral exams? |
No, not at a uni. In Feb I was told I failed my thesis for the second time, so told my uni that I couldn't teach, and had to do my thesis. I would have wanted to go back in Sept. But they passed a lovely law saying that anyone who wants to teach, from kindergarten up to university, you have to have a PERUVIAN teaching license. So my 3 US licenses, and my MA don't count for anything. I'd have to go back to school for two years. And in Spanish. To teach English.
No ME, because I'd be the breadwinner, and a stay at home husband in the ME wolnd't work. We're looking at Asia.
China, probably not for a while. While money isn't everything, the jobs I've applied for in China are offering me the same as I was making 5 years ago. Since I'll be putting myself through aNOTHER MA programme and my husband through his BA and we want a family, we'll be goign to Korea for five years or so. The whole career package is better there, plus, well, giving birth in China, at a local hospital is something that I wouldn't consider doing. Then when we have a couple more flats, and have finished our degrees, we'll go to China. Horrible pay, but good hours. Nice place to raise kids too. Though might stay in Korea if I got a good job and good housing.
Cambrdige exams is a can of worms. I applied directly to the person in charge of Peru, was told there were no places. Finally got recruited by my old boss's friend. Have been doing it for two years. If you want to get into exams, I suggest trying to contact the person in charge of the country you're in, but also asking around. Contact are everthing, at laest here in Peru. another reason why I'm leaving. |
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