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Job Discussion Forums
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| Which one would get hired first? |
| A non-degree holder with a CELTA Pass-A (Top 5%) |
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16% |
[ 2 ] |
| A degree holder with only a CELTA Pass or lesser TEFL cert |
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83% |
[ 10 ] |
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| Total Votes : 12 |
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| Author |
Message |
TheForce
Joined: 30 Oct 2009
Posts: 5
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 Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| norwalkesl wrote: |
You can get work in many countries.
Most of Mexico, Central and South America, China, Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia.
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Without a degree?
Isn't that what the poster is asking?
(I was under the assumption that a degree is required for all S.E Asian countries).
S. |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
OK, then it's unanimous: I'm SOL.
With this global recession turning TEFL into a buyer's instead of a seller's market, with an increased supply of degreed applicants, I shouldn't even waste my time getting started. Correct? |
Pretty sure we didn't exactly say that.
Your question wasn't "Is it possible to get started in this field without a degree?"
To THAT question, the answer is a cautious yes. It does cause some difficulties, but it's very possible in a lot of places.
But you asked, essentially "If I get an A on a CELTA cert, will that fully compensate for my lack of degree?"
The answer to THAT question is no. It's good to get a cert, and doing well on it is undoubtedly better than not.
But a four week course, regardless of stellar grade, won't complete replace a degree.
Look. I started in this field without a degree, am degreeless no longer, and will have another soon! It can be done.
But know that it puts some obstacles in your way that wouldn't be there if you had a degree to start with- that's all.
Best,
Justin |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| TheForce wrote: |
| norwalkesl wrote: |
You can get work in many countries.
Most of Mexico, Central and South America, China, Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. |
Without a degree?
Isn't that what the poster is asking?
(I was under the assumption that a degree is required for all S.E Asian countries).
S. |
I think in Asia, it depends on how good the school's connections are. |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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I've known and known of non-degree holders working in Cambodia, Vietnam, China, and Taiwan. I haven't been to any of those countries, so don't know about legality, but it happens.
In Korea, where I have a little experience, it used to be common for people to work with no degree, but this is now strongly sanctioned. And they mean it- best not to mess around with that.
Best,
Justin |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| Yep, agreed. Don't try to create a fake degree. While that might have worked years ago. Now, you're most likely to be banned from that country. |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| norwalkesl wrote: |
| AndrewR wrote: |
OK, then it's unanimous: I'm SOL.
With this global recession turning TEFL into a buyer's instead of a seller's market, with an increased supply of degreed applicants, I shouldn't even waste my time getting started. Correct? |
Absolutely not.
You can get work in many countries.
Most of Mexico, Central and South America, China, Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia.
You won't be getting the best jobs, but you will be able to do it.
You have to start somewhere and just like when you were 18, you begin at the bottom and work up. |
All of those countries are wide-open with a TEFL but no degree.
Mexico is an easy place to get a start in as a new ESL teacher. Lot's of jobs, close to the US and the competition isn't too fierce. |
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AndrewR
Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
| norwalkesl wrote: |
| AndrewR wrote: |
OK, then it's unanimous: I'm SOL.
With this global recession turning TEFL into a buyer's instead of a seller's market, with an increased supply of degreed applicants, I shouldn't even waste my time getting started. Correct? |
Absolutely not.
You can get work in many countries.
Most of Mexico, Central and South America, China, Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia.
You won't be getting the best jobs, but you will be able to do it.
You have to start somewhere and just like when you were 18, you begin at the bottom and work up. |
All of those countries are wide-open with a TEFL but no degree.
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Not so Vietnam. At least not anymore, according to the recent news I read on http://www.saigonesl.com/forum/index.php |
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80daze
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 118
Location: China
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| Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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I know 3 people who are currently teaching in China who have no degree, although one is doing his by distance. They are all working legally and have the appropriate visas (resident) and expert certificate all sorted through the school (they have contacts).
2 of them don't have a TEFL cert (as well as no degree)! They are all on a good wage (for China) and saving 50% of what they are earning. They have been teaching here for 5+ years and now have the experience to command a better wage. Last time I spoke to one of them he was looking at doing a distance masters in TESOL as his experience in teaching meant he could skip the BA and go straight for an MA. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| 80daze wrote: |
| Last time I spoke to one of them he was looking at doing a distance masters in TESOL as his experience in teaching meant he could skip the BA and go straight for an MA. |
Really? That sounds good. What uni is it from? |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| 80daze wrote: |
| Last time I spoke to one of them he was looking at doing a distance masters in TESOL as his experience in teaching meant he could skip the BA and go straight for an MA. |
Really? That sounds good. What uni is it from? |
Sounds like "Rip-Off State" to me.  One of those life exp. degrees that isn't worth the paper it's printed on.
If it's legit, I would love more info as well. |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like "Rip-Off State" to me. Razz One of those life exp. degrees that isn't worth the paper it's printed on.
If it's legit, I would love more info as well. |
Careful- nobody mentioned a "life experience" degree.
A number of perfectly legitimate universities will, under certain circumstances, accept candidates to an MA program without a BA.
They still do the same MA program courses as any other MA students, so it isn't a fraudulent degree, just one for which the entrance requirements were flexed for some reason. This is usually only done (by a good university, anyway) in fairly specific circumstances.
I know someone with an MA through the Open University who never did a BA. The reason was that when she qualified as a teacher (she's middle aged), teacher training college wasn't a degree program in the UK. By the time she decided to do an MA, she had 20+ years teaching experience at the secondary level, so it seems obvious that an first degree in education wouldn't really be needed.
The thing is, though- a good program will tend to only even consider this in fairly obvious cases like this one. If it's just a question of "I never got around to doing a degree, and don't have any alternative education/training," then a good program won't take you, and a program that takes you won't be good.
Best,
Justin |
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Deicide
Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1005
Location: Caput Imperii Americani
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Just get a bachelor's degree in engineering... |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Always with the engineering suggestion! 
I say, get a degree in philosophy.
The way the world is going, thoughts may be the only thing most of us can afford in a few more years. (Careful on the thoughtcrime, though.)
But seriously- I probably do earn less than my friends with degrees in Engineering, but I've seen a lot more of the world. (And most of them have first world expenses anyway, which makes the paycheck difference a lot less significant.)
Bes,t
Jusitn |
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Deicide
Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1005
Location: Caput Imperii Americani
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Justin Trullinger wrote: |
Always with the engineering suggestion!
I say, get a degree in philosophy.
The way the world is going, thoughts may be the only thing most of us can afford in a few more years. (Careful on the thoughtcrime, though.)
But seriously- I probably do earn less than my friends with degrees in Engineering, but I've seen a lot more of the world. (And most of them have first world expenses anyway, which makes the paycheck difference a lot less significant.)
Bes,t
Jusitn |
The only one who cares about your gallivanting about the world is you and that is the point. It doesn't justify the sad status of 'TEFL'...pragmaticism wins in the end. |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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Gallivanting. THat's a word for the week. Hadn't heard it in a while, and really like it.
THe only one who cares about your paycheck is you, Deicide. I sure don't care what you're earning, or aren't earning. 
The point in pragmaticism is to have the best life you can. I care about seeing the world, so I do. I have friends back home who care about having a 6 figure mortgage. Up to them.
But don't kid yourself. THEY tell ME that they wish the could see the world if only they had enough money. I've never told them I wish I could afford a suburban subdivision and a SUV.
Best,
Justin |
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