Job Discussion Forums

[Griff-James]

Teachers' wages seem relatively static and their working and living conditions are mediocre, and are not improving.

Why?

This can and will cause problems for the students and institutions.

I can't envisage new teachers staying for any length of time, like they seemed to do in the "old days".

Recruitment is already a problem in some places.

What will happen to TEFL in KSA?

[007]

[Griff-James]

The quality of education provided in KSA is, generally, poor to begin with.

By expanding class sizes and keeping salaries and living conditions low, the quality of English language tuition will fall further. I saw this during my time in KSA.

I suspect if this continues there will be a marked drop in the quality of education the students experience.

Have the old timers noticed the effect of increased class sizes, etc?

It's important to ensure the new generation of students is well educated because the need for oil will decline sharply before the oil itself.

[johnslat]

Dear Griff-James,

The battle over class size was a never-ending one all the time I was in Saudi.
The administration always favors quantity over quality, and that's not something confined to the Kingdom.
Everywhere I've taught, including here in the US, there is constant pressure to increase the number of students per class.
I wish that it were a requirement that ALL school administrators had to have had at least SOME classroom experience. That might make a difference in their thinking.
Unfortunately, in my experience anyway, most are totally clueless about what goes on and what SHOULD go on in a classroom.
Regards,
John

[saharastars]

Its a real pity because this will inevitably impact on the whole culture and ethos of education provision. In the end the reputations of instituitons will be poor, and then potential students will look abroad. Oh yeah I forgot this is already happening, thus a pattern of 'brain & economy drain' will occur. Employers will look to employ those with qualifications from abroad over those from home.

[Griff-James]

Hi John,

Thanks for replying.

The problem goes further than classroom size.

My ex HoD did some research and found that several universities in the Eastern Province were several men down because there was a shortage of people prepared to work in the sandbox for the money and conditions on offer.

I suspect the problems will grow with the increasing use of "recruiters".

[HCEG1]

KSA used to offer substantially higher salaries than anywhere else in the Gulf. These days, it's relatively easy to find jobs in Bahrain, Qatar & the UAE which match or exceed the best paying jobs in the Kingdom. BAE Systems, for example, have been taking on Kiwis, Aussies & Irish with dubious qualifications and little or no Middle Eastern experience. Some well qualified former BAE staff have moved on to nicer places for similar money-a no brainer. I see a continuation of this type of exodus. KSA is a dreadful place to live and work compared to the neighbouring Gulf countries

[johnslat]

Does anyone believe there may come a time when they finally realize that what they're doing is not working out well?
Any optimists out there?
Regards,
John

[desultude]

[Dervish Finkelblatt]

How's their Chinese?

[johnslat]

Dear desultude,

I'm looking for an optimist much as Diogenes* was looking for "an honest man" - i.e. with little hope of finding one.

Regards,
John the Dog

* Diogenes the Cynic: The modern terms cynic and cynical derive from the Greek word kynikos, the adjective form of kyon, meaning dog.

Dear Dervish Finkelblatt

Not bad - I recommend the Lai Lai Chinese Restaurant in Olaya.

Regards,
John

[johnslat]

Dear Deicide,

Arf, Arf!!! and Bow-Wow!!! Not to mention, Grrrrrr!!

Regards,
John

[trapezius]

Let me qualify your statement, James.

[Cleopatra]

I also have to agree with trapezius and (!) 007.

As far as employers are concerned, there is an almost endless stream of Asian, Middle Eastern and, increasingly, East European teachers who will be happy to take jobs for pay and conditions which native speakers would not accept. That said, with the economic crisis in so much of the world, 'even' native speaking Westerners may find themselves accepting jobs they would have turned their noses up at a few years ago.

BTW I should add, as I've done before, that despite this new wave of lousy recruiter positions, there are still some decent employers out there. You won't read too much about them here as their employess are (more or less) content and don't feel the need to vent on Dave's. It's a 'dog that didn't bark' kind of thing.

[Griff-James]

I suspect the quality of education will decline sharply if non-native speakers are used.

The current changes will affect everyone eventually.

Luckily, I am changing career.