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'Abuse' in Saudi
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed



Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...Texas coastlines off Aransas Pass and Mustang Island...

A bleedin' heart from south Texas?!? Whoda thunk? No wonder you try so much to impress this board. Who you tryin' to impress? Throw off your chains, girl!

We'll accept you for who you are if ya stop tryin' to impress. An 'dis is from a transplanted Louisiana boy...

NCTBA
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With Malice Toward None



Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 250

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnslat wrote:
Dear WMTN,

Give up? Hold on while I check a dictionary. Ah, I see - nope, that's not in my vocabulary.

I thank you for your kind offer, but I DO have a sense of shame. I would not inflict my "novel" on anyone as I'm only too well aware of just how really, truly terrible it is.

However, my next one . . . . well, I'll let you read that one.

Regards,
John

Dear JS,
Well, I think you should write a period novel, given your understanding of culture, history, literary movements.. Please send me a copy before you publish so that I can send you a few comments in order to demolish your ego, and then arrange to send me an invitation to the Pulitzer ceremony Very Happy .
Regards.
WMTN.
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear WMTN,

Thanks for the suggestion, but what I'm writing now could, I suppose, be called a "moral dilemma" novel - how doing the wrong thing for the right reason can take one down the slippery slope.
The working title is "Natural Causes."

And while I appreciate your kind offer to "demolish" my "ego." I can assure you that life has already done a pretty thorough job of that.

The Pulitzer ceremony? Didn't you mean to write "The Nobel Prize ceremony?"

(As you can see - all I have left is a teeny, mini-ego.)

Regards,
John
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With Malice Toward None



Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 250

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnslat wrote:
Dear WMTN,

Thanks for the suggestion, but what I'm writing now could, I suppose, be called a "moral dilemma" novel - how doing the wrong thing for the right reason can take one down the slippery slope.
The working title is "Natural Causes."

And while I appreciate your kind offer to "demolish" my "ego." I can assure you that life has already done a pretty thorough job of that.

The Pulitzer ceremony? Didn't you mean to write "The Nobel Prize ceremony?"

(As you can see - all I have left is a teeny, mini-ego.)
Dear JS,
For all practical and moral purposes I think the Pulitzer is better.
Regards.
WMTN.

Regards,
John
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lazycomputerkids



Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 360
Location: Tabuk

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John

You're so sweet. I had not intended for my post to elicit solutions. You're entirely correct about self-reliance. DO NOT come to the middle-east to teach English if your self-knowledge includes a need for guidance and social interaction. And I shouldn't make the middle-east a criterion.

The post was meant to describe the 'abuse' of compound life in a smaller town. Though my experience is milder to the isolation to which the women are subjected. The guys are allowed far more latitude to walk about.

The 'abuse' is one had better be prepared for some solitude. The abuse is a dependency on a program's drivers or a bus and the inevitable lack of coordination teachers have when venturing about. ESL teachers are a motley crew.

I enjoy writing even in a forum as ephemeral as a bulletin board. A board is simultaneously chatty and a record for an as of yet to be determined period of time. It's a kind of graffiti.

My hat's off to your effort of a novel. I'm greatly a non-fiction sort, but as friends have insisted this or that work, I'm often familiar with a title. During a time of solitude in a past chapter of my life, I became enthralled with Flannery O'Connor, read everything available to the public and nearly made a pilgrimage to her home and the university attending her private papers and such. Someone, some day, will acquire the rights to her most celebrated short story and film it and fill me with an indescribable envy.

O'Connor wrote that when called upon to write prose, it dulled her narrative ability. She also said painting was an excellent hobby for writers-- it forces them to take long looks at the mundane. But I can quote her endlessly. I think most literate people have read a few how-to-write books and her musings on the subject are contained in Mystery and Manners. I've yet to find its equal.
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lazycomputerkids



Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 360
Location: Tabuk

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Substance Reply with quote

tacomaboywa wrote:
...since you requested a substantive example then I will do my best to provide one. Here is one from my personal experience in the Kingdom (by the way, 1 year in 2002/2003 and 1 year in 2008/2009):...
Wow. May anyone entering Saudi on a business visa take heed. It makes no sense for a company to bring over people on business visas with an intent of hiring them and I hope the practice is scrutinized, fined and repeat offenders jailed. I was reading a report on the Gulf's population growth today. An increase of a factor of a third. An effect on immigration labor was speculated.

A clear case of abuse.
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tacomaboywa



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 194
Location: The Magic Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lazycomputerkids wrote:
John

You're so sweet. I had not intended for my post to elicit solutions. You're entirely correct about self-reliance. DO NOT come to the middle-east to teach English if your self-knowledge includes a need for guidance and social interaction. And I shouldn't make the middle-east a criterion.

The post was meant to describe the 'abuse' of compound life in a smaller town. Though my experience is milder to the isolation to which the women are subjected. The guys are allowed far more latitude to walk about.

The 'abuse' is one had better be prepared for some solitude. The abuse is a dependency on a program's drivers or a bus and the inevitable lack of coordination teachers have when venturing about. ESL teachers are a motley crew.

I enjoy writing even in a forum as ephemeral as a bulletin board. A board is simultaneously chatty and a record for an as of yet to be determined period of time. It's a kind of graffiti.

My hat's off to your effort of a novel. I'm greatly a non-fiction sort, but as friends have insisted this or that work, I'm often familiar with a title. During a time of solitude in a past chapter of my life, I became enthralled with Flannery O'Connor, read everything available to the public and nearly made a pilgrimage to her home and the university attending her private papers and such. Someone, some day, will acquire the rights to her most celebrated short story and film it and fill me with an indescribable envy.

O'Connor wrote that when called upon to write prose, it dulled her narrative ability. She also said painting was an excellent hobby for writers-- it forces them to take long looks at the mundane. But I can quote her endlessly. I think most literate people have read a few how-to-write books and her musings on the subject are contained in Mystery and Manners. I've yet to find its equal.


Ah, just as I was starting to believe lazycomputerkids was unwilling or unable to write a friendly, down-to-earth response with some personal experience (substance) on this thread, it happens. I'm glad to see it.


---------------
Avoid M-Trading
http://www.tulbah.org/
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tacomaboywa



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 194
Location: The Magic Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Substance Reply with quote

lazycomputerkids wrote:
tacomaboywa wrote:
...since you requested a substantive example then I will do my best to provide one. Here is one from my personal experience in the Kingdom (by the way, 1 year in 2002/2003 and 1 year in 2008/2009):...
Wow. May anyone entering Saudi on a business visa take heed. It makes no sense for a company to bring over people on business visas with an intent of hiring them and I hope the practice is scrutinized, fined and repeat offenders jailed. I was reading a report on the Gulf's population growth today. An increase of a factor of a third. An effect on immigration labor was speculated.

A clear case of abuse.


Yes, everyone should avoid teaching in KSA on anything but an Employment Visa. Be wary of any company brining you over on a Business/Government Visa. There is no magical Iqauma with a Business/Government Visa.


---------------
Avoid M-Trading
http://www.tulbah.org/
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With Malice Toward None



Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 250

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clear?
Everyone and anyone who signs/accepts offers that are not legally valid in SA terms is an idiot of the first order and he/she will suffer and won't be able to get out, too.
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lazycomputerkids



Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 360
Location: Tabuk

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never Ceased To Be Amazed wrote:
...Texas coastlines off Aransas Pass and Mustang Island...

A bleedin' heart from south Texas?!? Whoda thunk? No wonder you try so much to impress this board. Who you tryin' to impress? Throw off your chains, girl!

We'll accept you for who you are if ya stop tryin' to impress. An 'dis is from a transplanted Louisiana boy...
Tsk, tsk. Assumptions. Why? I earned money for college working the gulf. God-awful.
My heart bleeds alright...it bleeds your neo-conservative tears of fail. /talon
Impress? Acceptance? Kneel before Zod, Jar-El, and all your Nietzschean folly.
I've seen but two cities of the Pelican state: Huoma and New Orleans, the latter for a few hours waiting for a bus transfer from 2 to 5am. But I have a memory I need to confirm: Was/Is there a statue of Churchill overlooking a New Orleans' harbor?
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tacomaboywa



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 194
Location: The Magic Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With Malice Toward None wrote:
Clear?
Everyone and anyone who signs/accepts offers that are not legally valid in SA terms is an idiot of the first order and he/she will suffer and won't be able to get out, too.


Only if you are desperate and have few credentials would I recommend using a recruiter. Just avoid the real bad ones. I know a few people who have successfully endured all the BS and received their salary (often late). Just be aware that these recruiters will on pay your airfare or much of anything else.

If you can, just find a reputable employer (University and such) and come over on an Employment Visa.


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Avoid M-Trading
http://www.tulbah.org/
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trapezius



Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Land of Culture of Death & Destruction

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
As a 'guest' of The Kingdom, it is the experience of many a court will default in favor of a citizen. Do you care to share specifics of a situation to which you have first-hand knowledge where a guest of The Kingdom was denied justice, despite strong evidence?


I suggest you pick up a Saudi newspaper in English (there are 2), and there you will find plenty of stories.

And if you want more personal ones, I have many to share that I have unfortunately gathered over my years here, involving myself, my father, friends, friends of friends, colleagues, and many poor 3rd worlders I have met in town.

However, this is not the place to air personal stories in a sensitive country such as this, especially on an internet board, where no one knows who anybody is. Come meet me in Jeddah on your bicycle, and I will tell as many stories as your heart desires. Coffee/tea at any cafe/resto is on me, as long as you can open your eyes to reality!
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear LCK (I'm SO lazy),

I don't know if it's overlooking the harbor, but here's a photo of it:

http://tinyurl.com/ykdqyzd

Please don't be hard on NCTBA - he's really one of the good guys (and Lord knows we're in short supply.)

I LOVE Flannery O'Connor, and, in fact, I had the great good fortune to teach some of her stories from "A Good Man is Hard to Find."

If I might make a suggestion - another great Southern writer: Walker Percy.

Regards,
John


Last edited by johnslat on Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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tacomaboywa



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 194
Location: The Magic Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trapezius wrote:


I suggest you pick up a Saudi newspaper in English (there are 2), and there you will find plenty of stories.


Here's a couple links to news in English:

http://www.arabnews.com/

http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/



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Avoid M-Trading
http://www.tulbah.org/
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lazycomputerkids



Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 360
Location: Tabuk

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnslat wrote:
I don't know if it's overlooking the harbor, but here's a photo of it:
http://tinyurl.com/ykdqyzd
The site is BLOCKED. Arrrrgh. The abuses of Saudi!
johnslat wrote:
I LOVE Flannery O'Connor, and, in fact, I had the great good fortune to teach some of her stories from "A Good Man is Hard to Find."
The story same for which I described a terrible dread. I invite you to enjoy a minimal, curricular module created from Mystery and Manners
http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B1VQ7zB18n4JZGEyYzU4OTMtOWNiMS00OGYwLWI2OWUtMzNkMjFmOTM5Yjli&hl=en
johnslat wrote:
If I might make a suggestion - another great Southern writer: Walker Percy.
I've read the Moviegoer. I can recall a scene where the protagonist, pleased with his own nonchalance, lights the cigarette of a celebrity.
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