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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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 Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| tiptronic wrote: |
007,
Do you mean 45000$ a year or 4500$ a month?
Thank you. |
$4500 /month (this min salary is for Assistnat Prof holding the red/blue passport!, else is around $3200 for candidates from other Arab coutries!).
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| When I look at the variation in those numbers, I find it rather an insult that they so badly underpay Muslims who wish to live and work in Mecca or Medina |
Indeed, is not only an insult, it is an 'educational' crime and institutional discrimination against candidates which do not hold red/blue passport and their eyes are not blue or green! |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| holding the red/blue passport |
I woudln't have thought the Swiss were so highly prized given the recent ban on minarets!
I say this because the only country I know of with a red passport is Switzerland. I'm sure there are other countries with red passports, but I'm not aware of them.[/code] |
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tiptronic
Joined: 12 Nov 2009
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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VS,
As I wrote earlier, these are not the offerings. Currently, I am inquiring and applying for these jobs (already interviewed by a couple of them). The list I posted was created by me through getting updated information from my colleagues of my origin working at those universities. And, Yes, you sound right about the low salaries when it comes to KSA.
007,
"Indeed, is not only an insult, it is an 'educational' crime and institutional discrimination against candidates which do not hold red/blue passport and their eyes are not blue or green!"
Well, I am not an Arab and I have green eyes  . But I guess, it won't count either.
The only thing that I do not understand is:
If Saudis are willing to pay the Americans or Britons like 50 per cent more than the rest, don't they think that these "rest" folks can easily find jobs in USA and UK without any hassle and will not be treated unequally in terms salaries. I mean a person of the rest can be graduated from Columbia and has many publications but a person of the west can be a graduate of an unknown university in the states and has nothing published and is favored  .Then you do not want the quality but the names on the faculty members list such as "james or john or ..." instead of "mohammad or omar". This is called self-deception besides discrimination.
Anyway, guys I really appreciate your comments. |
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tacomaboywa
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 194
Location: The Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Cleopatra wrote: |
| Quote: |
| holding the red/blue passport |
I woudln't have thought the Swiss were so highly prized given the recent ban on minarets!
I say this because the only country I know of with a red passport is Switzerland. I'm sure there are other countries with red passports, but I'm not aware of them.[/code] |
True, True
I even hear that the UK passport can get you a good salary.  LOL
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Avoid M-Trading!
http://www.tulbah.org/ |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| If Saudis are willing to pay the Americans or Britons like 50 per cent more than the rest, don't they think that these "rest" folks can easily find jobs in USA and UK without any hassle and will not be treated unequally in terms salaries. |
No, because the fact of the matter is that, even if they offer these people a lot less than they would offer a 'Westerner", there will still be plenty of takers.
What we're dealing with here are market forces. The Saudis know that people come here primarilly, if not only, for the money, and that foreign workers will only accept a job here if they will be earning substantially more than they would in their home country. What is an attractive salary to someone from, say, India, would be peanuts to someone from, say, Britain.
| Quote: |
Then you do not want the quality but the names on the faculty members list such as "james or john or ..." instead of "mohammad or omar". This is called self-deception besides discrimination.
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Well, if Omar has a US passport, he will get the same salary as John from the US! BTW not all employers have these discriminatory salary scales, but this kind of practice is very common in KSA, and indeed throughout the Gulf region. It's a case of paying as little as you think you can get away with, which is what most employers everywhere do. No doubt many employers in our home countries would do the same thing if they could get away with it, but thankfully there are laws which prevent them from discriminating in this manner. |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Cleopatra wrote: |
| Quote: |
| holding the red/blue passport |
I woudln't have thought the Swiss were so highly prized given the recent ban on minarets! |
Well, the terminology "red/blue passport" is mainly used for UK (dark red) and US/Canada (blue) passports. The Swiss are out of the equation in the Magic Kingdom!
| Quote: |
| I say this because the only country I know of with a red passport is Switzerland. I'm sure there are other countries with red passports, but I'm not aware of them.[/code] |
I guess the Irish passport is also dark red (like red wine!) but do not have the same weight/privilege in the Magic Kingdom as the UK or USA passport. 
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| Well, if Omar has a US passport, he will get the same salary as John from the US |
Well, I think, if Omar has a UK/US passport, he will not get the same salary as John from UK or USA, especially if Omar has no blue/green eyes.
In other hand, if Omar has a UK/US passport, he will not get the same salary as Bandar from the Magic Kingdom.
So, the conclusion is that Omar is subjected to a double-standard discrimination policy in the Magic Kingdom!
Last edited by 007 on Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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tacomaboywa
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 194
Location: The Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| 007 wrote: |
Well, the terminology "red/blue passport" is mainly used for UK (dark red) and US/Canada (blue) passports. The Swiss are out of the equation in the Magic Kingdom!
I guess the Irish passport is also dark red (like red wine!) but do not have the same weight/privilege in the Magic Kingdom as the UK or USA passport. |
Thanks for the clarification. I think some of us may have misunderstood which countries you were referring to exactly.
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Avoid M-Trading!
http://www.tulbah.org/ |
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trapezius
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Land of Culture of Death & Destruction
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| If Saudis are willing to pay the Americans or Britons like 50 per cent more than the rest |
50% to 500% more, depending on the industry/job type. And I have heard of cases where it was 1,000% more. |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:01 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I guess the Irish passport is also dark red (like red wine!) |
EU passports - whether Irish, British or Hungarian - are a maroon colour. Definitely not 'dark red'.
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| do not have the same weight/privilege in the Magic Kingdom as the UK or USA passport. |
I don't know where you've worked, but everywhere I've worked all passport holders of countries deemed "Western' get the same salary. I have never heard of an American or British teacher being paid more than an Irish teacher with the same credentials.
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| Well, I think, if Omar has a UK/US passport, he will not get the same salary as John from UK or USA, especially if Omar has no blue/green eyes. |
Your shoulder chip is showing. Salaries are based on citizenship, not on 'eye colour' or name. And I'll repeat: Not all employers discriminate in this manner. I have worked in places where salaries were based on qualificatons and experience alone, so that an Indian would get the same as an American, for example. If "Omar" is so woried about 'double discrimination' he should seek out one of these places. |
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trapezius
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Land of Culture of Death & Destruction
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Your shoulder chip is showing. Salaries are based on citizenship, not on 'eye colour' or name. |
I personally know of a couple of cases where natives of Western countries were paid more than Asian/Arab-origin naturalized citizens of said countries. But, I have no clue if that is common or not. |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| Cleopatra wrote: |
| EU passports - whether Irish, British or Hungarian - are a maroon colour. Definitely not 'dark red'. |
Well, do you think Wikipedia should change the definition of 'maroon colour' to ' definitely not dark red'!
"Maroon is a dark red color."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maroon_(color)
"European passports share common design features[1] such as the burgundy coloured cover"
"Burgundy is a shade of purplish red associated with the Burgundy wine.."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passport_of_the_European_Union
Uncle Scott must be proud about the Maroon colour, because it is the color of Heart of Midlothian F.C.; a Scottish professional football club based in Edinburgh!
| Quote: |
| I have worked in places where salaries were based on qualificatons and experience alone, so that an Indian would get the same as an American, for example. If "Omar" is so woried about 'double discrimination' he should seek out one of these places. |
Well, "Omar" is no longer worried, because he has already resigned and moved to a civilized country where candidates are treated equally regardless of eye colours, ethnicity, nationality, passport colour, gender, name, etc. etc. etc.! |
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tiptronic
Joined: 12 Nov 2009
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, that is my point. I say then why would Omar go to Saudi soils if he has the opportunity to work in the west regardless of he is of the rest? I mean how comes the Saudis ignore this reality? I have come to an understanding that the dilemma here is this:
Saudis think that:
-With the given qualifications, Omar can only work either in his native country or Saudi Kingdom.
Reality assures that:
-Given the same qualifications, Omar has many choices. Therefore, if they offer a slightly more salary than the Omar's country offers, everybody knows that Omar has the qualifications to work in Sweden, UK, South Korea, Finland.... and he will go somewhere else. |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| tiptronic wrote: |
| Yes, that is my point. I say then why would Omar go to Saudi soils if he has the opportunity to work in the west regardless of he is of the rest? |
Well, Omar goes to the Magic Kingdom for different reasons:
1. He is unemployed;
2. Has got dept to pay in short time;
3. fed up with cold and no diversity in his current life;
4. Want to experiment the social life in a different environment;
5. To fill the bucket for his agenda!; or
5. For religious reasons (for Muslims).
| Quote: |
I mean how comes the Saudis ignore this reality? I have come to an understanding that the dilemma here is this:
Saudis think that:
-With the given qualifications, Omar can only work either in his native country or Saudi Kingdom.
Reality assures that:
-Given the same qualifications, Omar has many choices. Therefore, if they offer a slightly more salary than the Omar's country offers, everybody knows that Omar has the qualifications to work in Sweden, UK, South Korea, Finland.... and he will go somewhere else. |
Well, the problem is more than that!
It is a problem of inferiority/seperioty complex with some of the Saudis are suffering from towards foreigners. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Another factor is that many Muslims wish to come and work in Medina. To do so they will accept a low salary. Misguided in my opinion, but then I am not one of the faithful. |
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007
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
| Another factor is that many Muslims wish to come and work in Medina. To do so they will accept a low salary. |
True, Uncle Scott.
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| Misguided in my opinion, but then I am not one of the faithful. |
C'mon Uncle Scott, I thought you were a man of faith who does not follow the path of the Great Satan! |
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