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jdl · Joined: 06 Apr 2005 Posts: 632 Location: cyberspace

Kinda cute really! Great fun! I think we have the makings of a distinguished society here. Well done, Justin. You are the official *beep* head scholar and founding member. Oh shameless! How do you wish to be addressed?

Justin, one request, please..... not too much standing at attention; it is beyond our aging capabilities. Let us remain as much 'at ease' as possible and save our steel for those really important more formal occasions and significant decisions regarding the Language.

desultude · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 614

jdl · Joined: 06 Apr 2005 Posts: 632 Location: cyberspace

desultude,
urSR. WTV will hpn to our BLuVD lng W di cons chng w/o some codifcation.
Justin's new organization has its job cut out for it.

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:46 pm Post subject:

desultude · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 614

jdl · Joined: 06 Apr 2005 Posts: 632 Location: cyberspace

I think we, both of us, are either in a lot of trouble or just too far ahead of the curve to care? Back to the cave!

johnslat · Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:16 pm Post subject:

Dear jdl,

where words are but the shadows on the wall:

"In the beginning of the Allegory of the Cave Plato represents man�s condition as being �chained in a cave,� with only a fire behind him. He perceives the world by watching the shadows on the wall. He sits in darkness with the false light of the fire and does not realize that this existence is wrong or lacking. It merely is his existence � he knows no other nor offers any complaint."

Regards,
John

jdl · Joined: 06 Apr 2005 Posts: 632 Location: cyberspace

Ah the 'theory of forms'.

Does Plato not offer a way round this dilemma of perceived reality; a manner in which, although we may never see the truth directly, we can refine our perception of it and oneness with it through an examination of the various forms (shadows) it takes?

Then of course to share our understanding/perception we have to talk about it or 'language it' and then all hell breaks loose.

There is a lot to be said for life in a cave?

desultude · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 614

Stephen Jones · Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124

The Real Academia was founded in 1713, over two hundred years after the death of Isabel the Catholic. The French Academy was founded in 1635; both probably reflected Bourbon Centralism.

Of course the UK spending most of the period from 1688 to 1760 with monarchs that couldn't speak English, might have limited the setting up of a Royal Academy for the Language.

More important probably was the fact that the English elite was very much centralized in Oxford, Cambridge and London. Less of a need to have an official institution for standardization.

It is also worth reminding ourselves that every Spanish speaking country, with the possible exception of Equatorial Guinea, has its own language Academy with parity of status with the Spanish one. And the codification for the grammar of the language came from a Venezuelan, Andr�s Bello in the beginning of the 19th century.

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:38 pm Post subject:

I hadn't really thought about the role non-English speaking monarchs in England might have had on the likelihood of setting up an academy.

The idea that other Spanish speaking countries have academies with "parity status" I would challenge, though. None have the prestige or worldwide recognition. I've travelled Latin America pretty much top to bottom, and have found that Spanish teachers refer and defer to the Academia Real. (Of Spain.)

I've also just popped into the Spanish department here, and nobody is aware of the existance of an Ecuadorian academy. Can't find it online either...I'm thinking that there are more exceptions than you think.

Best,
Justin

Stephen Jones · Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124

The Spanish Academy is generally considered primus inter pares. There are formal discussions between all of them every four years.

Here's the list of the 21 Academies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Spanish_Language_Academies As you can see the Equadorian Academy was founded in Quito in 1874.

There is even one in the United States, which considering the number of Spanish speakers there, is only to be expected.

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:28 pm Post subject:

First amongst equals always seems an odd concept, doesn't it?

I question the equality, as most people, even Spanish teachers here, either haven't heard of it, or think of it as "below" the SPanish one.

I'm going to do some research this weekend- got a meeting with some university linguistics profs. WOnder if I'll find an academy member...

Justin

J.M.A. · Joined: 20 Jan 2009 Posts: 69

Jonathan Swift's proposal was the closest the English language ever got to having an academy. Eventually political struggle and general skepticism on the part of many did it in. However there was widespread recognition at the time that something needed to be done to standardize the language and I suppose Samuel Johnson's dictionary was the great answer to this.

desultude · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 614

By the way, back to the codification of Spanish. I do believe there is a foundation in Miami in charge of codifying Spanglish.

It is the Cuban-American National Foundation. I wouldn't mess with their decisions, either, as they have been known in the past to be a bit aggressive with their detractors.