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rogerwallace · Joined: 24 Nov 2004 Posts: 66 Location: California

i HAVE USED LATIN BASED ENGLISH TEACHING in China several times at different universities. It wooked quite well because to "memorize" English words is, well... impossible. Learning prefix/suffix and root words leads to an explosion of understanding in a short time. The are several Chinese/English versions of this available!
Roger MEd

rogerwallace · Joined: 24 Nov 2004 Posts: 66 Location: California

the problem I found was that no one understood that English is a Latin based language and that cretificat programs don't use Latin based program teaching. Also that chinese so-called-educators had no idea what it was either. My university students, save for some very sharp ones, didn't understand anything that wouldn't be on their chinese exams(band 8,etc). It's much like things in the USA, where its all about the test now.
By seeing that no one replyed to this post, no one has used this teaching tool.

fluffyhamster · Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:41 pm Post subject:

Hi Roger! There's a bit of discussion about this stuff over on the Teacher Discussion Forums part of Dave's (essentially the following threads, in no particular order):
http://forums.eslcafe.com/teacher/viewtopic.php?t=8258
http://forums.eslcafe.com/teacher/viewtopic.php?t=8131
http://forums.eslcafe.com/teacher/viewtopic.php?t=8687
http://forums.eslcafe.com/teacher/viewtopic.php?t=3423
http://forums.eslcafe.com/teacher/viewtopic.php?t=9006 (NB: I haven't followed the link contained within this post/thread)
http://forums.eslcafe.com/teacher/viewtopic.php?t=7655

Then, I've just remembered that I had this among my "faves" (can't remember from where I found or was referred to it, though):
http://www.wordempire.com/
> http://www.wordempire.com/examples/

Stephen Jones · Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124

I've just gone on to some of the links fluffy gives and found that there are posts there from me that I have to go to a grammar to understand what I'm talking about. Scary

fluffyhamster · Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:38 pm Post subject:

Losing it a bit, then, Dr Jones? Surprised

BTW, they probably only spelt asymmetric as assymetric in Ancient Assyria. Very Happy

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

English is not solely Latin-based, though.

As for merely memorizing words, that is needed in pretty much most languages, isn't it? Supplementing it with how to use affixes is good, but you can't use it all the time to teach vocabulary.

GambateBingBangBOOM · Joined: 04 Nov 2003 Posts: 2021 Location: Japan

I'm not surprised your teachers didn't understand that English is a Latin based language. It isn't. It's a Germanic language (closest relative is Frisian, followed by Dutch, followed by German- It's a West-Germanic language that can further be categorized as an Anglo-Frisian language).

It is almost like a half-Germanic half-Romance language because of the influence of Norman French in the Middle English period (and to a lesser extent other Latin language influences- Romans arriving, the Church etc). (even in affixes, you can still see remnants of Germanic languages: Ox --> Oxen). English is peculiar in that rather than a new word from the conquerors replacing the old word, English created nuances and kept both words- and so now we have two words for many things: animal names are generally Germanic, but when we eat those animals, the names come from French (pig, or swine, is an animal. Pork is food. The French word for pig is "Porc" the German word for pig is "Schwein" [the word 'pig' is also from Old English, and meant 'young pig' where 'swine' meant an adult pig]). There was also influence from North Germanic languages as well.

But it's still a Germanic language.

fluffyhamster · Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 3:31 am Post subject:

GBBB, I think you're maybe reading a bit too much into Roger's choice of words. Latin (~ vocabulary) has been being borrowed into English since the year dot - from the Romans, the Christian missionaries, (the) French, and especially during the Renaissance and Reformation (with the need then to translate all the new knowledge and innovations, as well as old classics, the Bible etc etc etc into the vernacular, which was apparently at least thought to be lacking somewhat, hence the large influx of borrowings around that time - all those 'inkhorn' terms. Many may have fallen out of use as fast as they entered, but there are many that obviously didn't and are still in use today, as a glance at any modern synchronically-descriptive dictionary that provides etymological information will attest). Sure, you sort of mention the Romans and French, but to hear you tell it the English then reverted to more or less completely Anglo-Saxonish Old English ways (rearing Germanic swine-pigs whilst quaffing mead, with only the occassional fearful church attendance), and never really emerged from the Middle Ages, at least not in any major linguistic sense.

[For those who would like to know more about all this, quality printed sources such as Crystal's Encyclopedia of the English Language, or the more potted history in his The Fight for English (up to and including especially its sixth chapter, 'Borrowings', at least - a total of just 40 pages) are good and very accessible; then there are the various articles in McArthur's Oxford Companion to the English Language, and passages if not chapters in Burchfield's The English Language].

Threnody · Joined: 13 Nov 2009 Posts: 26 Location: Pennsylvania

fluffyhamster - I don't think anyone's arguing that the English lexicon is not chock-full of Latin borrowings, both direct and indirect, or that it has not been significantly influenced by Romance languages (primarily French).

By structure and descent, however, the English language is still considered primarily Germanic, patchwork and polyglot though it be.

fluffyhamster · Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:03 am Post subject:

GambateBingBangBOOM · Joined: 04 Nov 2003 Posts: 2021 Location: Japan

Threnody · Joined: 13 Nov 2009 Posts: 26 Location: Pennsylvania

fluffyhamster · Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:03 am Post subject:

Any links to resources that would help disentangle the French-routed apparently pseudo/faux Latin vocabulary from the actual Latin, GBBB? My students are absolutely clamouring Smile

for anything that will help them disentangle such matters. (Oh, but wait, there is the trusty Chambers 21st Century Dictionary for a start! Very Happy

Considerez-vous: absolute(ly)...ETYMOLOGY: 14c: from Latin absolutus loosened or separate, from absolvere (see absolve > ETYMOLOGY: 16c: from Latin absolvere to loosen); clamour noun...ETYMOLOGY: 14c: French, from Latin clamare to cry out. http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/features/chref/chref.py/main ).

Anyways, enough perhaps of the etymology-ology. Maybe we should talk a little bit about whether (and if so, how exactly) we generally teach affixes, 'roots', etc? Surprised

And more PIE, Threnody (or anyone)? Very Happy

(Actually, it's not really PIE, that's just a little joke to help end this post!).
http://forums.eslcafe.com/teacher/viewtopic.php?t=7750

GambateBingBangBOOM · Joined: 04 Nov 2003 Posts: 2021 Location: Japan

fluffyhamster · Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 3:27 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the links, GBBB. I doubt though that even I'd have too much difficulty distinguishing French writers/speakers from Spanish (in extended text at least), despite my "speciality" as it were being Chinese and related languages.