Job Discussion Forums

johnslat · Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:35 pm Post subject:

Dear 7atetan.

"A paper containing a quotation from Matthew 8:76 would be laughed out of a college class in America, Japan or even Peru; . . ."

I imagine it would be - since Matthew 8 ends at 34

8:34" And, behold, the whole city came out to meet Jesus: and when they saw him, they besought [him] that he would depart out of their coasts."

Regards,
John

bulgogiboy · Joined: 23 Feb 2005 Posts: 803

bulgogiboy · Joined: 23 Feb 2005 Posts: 803

Also, I wrote a Master's essay last year on the war in the former Yugoslavia(International Relations Dep), and quoted a few times from the Hebrew scriptures. It wasnt because I'm a believer (agnostic forever I think), but because there were pertinent parallels to be drawn. Got a good mark too Very Happy

Sheikh N Bake · Joined: 26 Apr 2007 Posts: 1307 Location: Dis ting of ours

I suspect VS is right--the OP can't seriously believe (or ask us to believe) he can run around chewing gum in people's faces during Ramadan and telling everyone who'll listen that he's an atheist and thinks the host country's legally enforced religion is BS.

bulgogiboy · Joined: 23 Feb 2005 Posts: 803

eclectic · Joined: 09 Nov 2006 Posts: 1122

[quote]Do any of you expats working in KSA ever worry about being falsely( or deservedly ) accused of insulting Islam/Mohammed/The Quran?

I don't have time for religion, Islam especially, and I never made any secret of it.

Example #1: Dialog
Me: Abdullah, I need your project finished Wednesday.
Abdullah: Inshallah.
Me: No, not "inshallah." Wednesday, please.
Abduallah: Inshallah.
Me: Well, suit yourself. But if it's not done by Wednesday, I will have to give you an F.

Example #2: A student would try to use Mohammed's supposed sayings in research papers. I disallowed that and explained why.

Example #4: I wore perfume and chewed gum during Ramadan. I had lunch in my office at noon, and was not concerned about who could smell the food.

eclectic · Joined: 09 Nov 2006 Posts: 1122

whoops in my glee to mention Mr. Vonnegut I quoted myself erroneously and failed to quote the poster's comments. See? It was already destined to be so, no matter how I intended to do that properly. Hey, try to prove it wrong. Smile

Sheikh N Bake · Joined: 26 Apr 2007 Posts: 1307 Location: Dis ting of ours

Chrysanthe · Joined: 04 Jan 2010 Posts: 9

7atetan said,

Example #3: A student asked me why I'm not a Muslim. I would say very candidly that I did not believe in the claims Islam makes, nor was I comfortable with some of its practices. I also gave (not in too much depth due to time constraints) some explanation as to why I was an atheist

Stephen Jones said,

Example 3 is fine up to the point where you explain you're an atheist. That would mean instant deportation if reported

My questions:

I'm in the process of getting my visa and filling out the visa application. It asks me my religion. As I am not religious, I planned on simply writing "not religious."

If they would deport me for saying I was an atheist, why would they let me in to the country knowing I do not believe in any religion? Is it simply that we are not allowed to express our religion, or lack thereof? Or is it less offensive to be a Christian? Is my application going to be denied because I put "not religious?"

I have no interest in talking about religion, as I have nothing to defend and nothing invested in other people agreeing with my own disillusionment, but if I can be deported for admitting to something that I clearly stated upon my application to enter the country, I have to say I would have the same concerns as bulgogiboy. Until now, nothing I have read has informed me that this would be a problem. Am I now to understand that it is??

Mia Xanthi · Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:41 am Post subject:

johnslat · Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:28 am Post subject:

Dear Chrysanthe,
This question keeps coming up. Many/most of us usually advise new hires to simply put "Christian" on the application. It can save time and trouble.
I'm an agnostic on my bad days, a Deist on my good ones. I put Catholic on mine.
But some contentious posters write stuff like, "I REFUSE to lie. I'm PROUD of being an atheist/agnostic and by God (humor intended,) I don't care WHO knows it."

Well, OK - if that's how you want to play it. But why buy trouble? In Saudi, that's always free.

Regards,
John

7atetan · Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:31 am Post subject:

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

7ate

Agressive and militant atheism does not go down well in the Kingdom. There are subtler ways of dealing with the situation, but for some people it might be better to stay away from the "Kingdom of Humanity".

Citizenkane · Joined: 14 Jun 2009 Posts: 234 Location: Xanadu

7atetan

I have known many people like you. People who openly boasted of how they ate in public during Ramadan, supported the invasion of Iraq, said the Danish cartoons were great etc etc. Like you, they glibly said that they'd 'never had a problem' with anything they had done.

Until they did have a problem, that is.

As John says, it only takes one disgruntled student to complain about your 'insensitive' approach. And while they may not be bothered doing so when they are passing their exams and so on, they may well choose to do so the minute 'the teacher make me fail'. And in such situations, the Saudi admin will almost always take the side of the student - especially when, as in your case, the accusations happen to be correct and reflect a general pattern of behaviour which other students could attest to.

I say this not for your benefit - you seem pleased enough with yourself - but for those people who might be tempted to think that you can say and do pretty much what you want in the Saudi classroom. You can't. Even if you think you can.