Job Discussion Forums

[vgchiang]

Sorry in advance for questions that have already been answered in previous threads. The search bar isn't working (is it working for anyone?)

I guess I'll begin by writing a little bit about my background.

I was born in California and have lived here my entire life. My mom, who is Chinese, was born in the United States, but lived in Macau in her 20's. My father was born in Guangzhou and lived there until he was 17. I have spoken English at home my whole life. But I can get by with Cantonese when I need to speak to my relatives. My English is as American as it gets.

I recently graduated from UC San Diego with a bachelors degree and I want to teach in Guangzhou, China. I can't yet afford a CELTA or Trinity course so my only options right now are to take a cheaper TEFL course or no course at all.

My question is if it is even a worthwhile venture to find a teaching job in Guangzhou right now? Or should I wait until I find a way to obtain the CELTA degree and then try finding a job. I really want to go ASAP but if it is futile, then I will just set my sights on going later in my life.

Also, in the current economic climate, is being ethnically Chinese really going hurt my chances of landing a job?

How do you guys think I should go about getting a teaching job in China?

Are there other recommended sites for finding a job in China besides Dave's ESL Cafe? Thanks.

[Zero]

-I think that in most of China, you are supposed to have at least two years of work experience in your own country before they can issue you a work visa. The rule may get bent sometime, but I think this is your biggest barrier. Others on Dave's will have more details.

-Having an Asian appearance is a barrier, no doubt about it. It is definitely not insurmountable, though, because there are plenty of Asian Americans, Asian Canadians etc. teaching English in China. It's a matter of you having to apply for more jobs in order to get the same number of replies that a Caucasian person would. It's not fair, it's not right, but that's the way it is. It would probably be best to connect on Dave's or other sites with Asian Americans who are teaching in China, find out who their employers are and, if there are openings, apply there, since you know they are Asian-friendly.

-Having a CELTA or other certification probably more in the category of "nice to have, but not essential."

[alter ego]

I grew up in San Diego, Mission and Pacific Beach, and attended Mission Bay High. I was an undergraduate student at UCSD for one term many years ago, and my older brother got his B.A. in economics there.

First of all, you needn't apologize to anyone for your questions. Some regular posters will most likely present their best Scrooge imitations today, and give you their negative BS warnings and advice, but never mind them.

You could certainly come to China, especially Guangzhou, without a job offer or TEFL cert, but this would be a risky move and you'd need to bring a safety net of cash with you. You should also decide what kind of teaching jobs you want or are willing to do. There are always jobs in GZ, but many of them are babysitting preschoolers and kindy kids. There are good jobs too, including uni gigs, but many of them expect FTs to have TEFL certs and at least one year of experience.

Hong Kong is another story. FTs there have teacher education credentials, higher degrees, and years of experience.

Unfortunately, your ethnicity will probably make it harder for you to find good jobs in China, but not impossible. There are many discussions here about that. If I were you I'd probably try to get my first job in South Korea. With a B.A. and a native speaker's accent you should be able to get a job through a recruiter. Some will shy away from your non-white look, but if you speak just like me and other Americans you'll eventually get a job offer.

Do a year in S. Korea, the Land of the Morning Calm, where they'll set you up in a full time job with an apartment and where you can save some money, get some experience under your belt, and then make that worthwhile trip to China to explore the country, and the places, where your parents once roamed. Good luck, and Merry Christmas!

[Laurence]

[LoPresto]

Canadian Kids School in GZ.

Happy Holidays!

[vgchiang]

Thanks for the kind comments and helpful advice everyone.
Zero: I did pt and ft jobs throughout college, and if I add the number of months that I worked ( that were 40 hour weeks) I would say that I�ve worked between 2 and 3 years. So I do have a resume with a work history. Would that satisfy the requirement?
Alter ego: nice to find a fellow triton on here haha. Unfortunately I don�t have a lot of cash and will have to start paying off those student loans in a couple of months. If I could obtain a nice celta or trinity certificate, would that make a big difference in helping me land a job, given that I am ethnically Chinese?

Merry XMAS to you all!

[Zero]

I do not think the experience during college will count for these purposes. I think it has to be post-college experience. So you have to find either a province that doesn't enforce the rule strictly or a school that has the guanxi (or the document-forging ability) to get around the rule. How doable that is, I do not know. Other posters probably have a better idea. Some rules are much easier to get around than others, and I just have no idea how this particular rule falls on the scale. I'm far past the age of having to think about it, unfortunately.

[xiaolongbaolaoxi]

I know at least two teachers who worked less than three months after college before finding a job here--one has done very well, the other not so hot. One teacher here never worked after college and is doing very well. All things are bendable here, at least in Guandong.

XLB

[vgchiang]

[mrwslee003]

Hi Chiang,
Don't be discouraged from your impression that only westerners can get
jobs in China. We just finished 2 years there and now we are back in Canada. They wanted us to stay longer but we chose to return.

You will be surprised to find that it may be an advantage for you to find
a job as a person who can also speak their language. I spoke Taisan
and a little Mandarin while I was there. The locals found me easier to
talk to because I can understand a bit of their background or culture as well. I was the "bridge" between the local natives and the FTs in my school and it worked out just great. We really helped to de-mistify the cultural divide between East and West. It was very rewarding, to say the
least.

Be positive, be confident, and be genuinely honest and sincere and they will embrace you with open arms, other FT's included.

[kukiv]

[SnoopBot]

The biggest problem is having a Chinese looking appearance. Here are the reasons why:

1. Many private schools are for children or young adults, the parents pay big $ to send little Dong to these schools. The schools can justify the added expense by providing a "White face" to greet the parents when they pick their kids up or pay their fee. Asian faces are associated with fellow Chinese or returning expats, the Chinese parents would balk at paying higher fee's at XYZ English school. Those extra fee's don't go into the FT's pockets either.

2. Universities: Generally, FT's make more money than their Chinese counterparts (not always true!) and justify the higher FT salary due to the foreigner factor. Having a Chinese face will bring resentment and demands from those Chinese teachers. Universities don't want to raise their Chinese teaching salaries and cannot find a foreigner dumb enough to accept lower than 2000 RMB a month.

However: Universities are your best choice as a newbie.


Now on a positive note try to market yourself like this: Use your understanding of both Chinese and Western culture as a plus, look for those universities that require FT's to teach "western culture" as a subject. Market yourself that you can teach this subject well because you understand both worlds.

Also you are an UC graduate (I teach here in California right now I am teaching in the UCLA system) Market your California experience and experience in the UC system. Many universities prep their students to go abroad for a master's degree. You could be the lead person to help organize and aid in these programs. Mention these facts-

So, now instead of looking "Asian" as a liability, you just made it an asset to an institution looking for someone to help with their program.

Be sure to focus on your ACCENT as being Californian Western or just say "neutral USA/Canadian." Do not focus on the fact that you can understand Cantonese. Most positions require almost NO Cantonese/Mand to be spoken in classes. If the students know you can speak Chinese they will NOT use their English. Universities have had problems in the past with FT's practicing their Chinese in classrooms instead of focusing on English. The less you know the better (in their mind).

Be honest, because as soon as you send a picture or a copy of your passport, they will all look at your picture and see that you're Asian looking. I've been called into the office on numerous times to look at passport picture cover copies and asked, "Does he look like he is a good teacher?"

THEY will look at these pictures, believe me they all do this.

Good luck, where in Cali are you? I'm living near the new Chinese areas, the new McMansion hills part of Los Angeles.

BTW: Try to volunteer at the UC ESL or TESOL prep courses. Work for free if they will give you a Recm letter for your effort.

[sharpe88]

^ Never had to worry about any of that and I've always done fine. Then again, I was never interested in teaching kids.

There's plenty of work to go around, and there plenty of ethnic Asian and whatever non-white people teaching English. Demand still outstrips supply by far, especially for halfway qualified teachers.

I always get the impression that it's the whiteys "warning" us how difficult it will be for us to scare the competition off.

[A'Moo]

[mrwslee003]

88 wrote:

I always get the impression that it's the whiteys "warning" us how difficult it will be for us to scare the competition off.[/quote]

Well, the colonial history has given many westerners the impression that anything non-western is not quite good enough, and therefore the superioritycomplex and the arrogant attitude. It is the product of the culture or recent history.

However, many westerners do not have these trappings and they treat
others with a sense of equality and empathy. They don't need "I am
better than thou!" crutch to live their lives. Therefore they will tell and
help everyone who wants to succeed succeed.

Those who may have allowed themselves to be victims of these complexes may have acquired "inferiority complexes". And these
people will feel inadequate if they can't have the "superior" items.

Both groups need help to open their eyes: the victims should know that
in these day and age, only you can determine what you can or can not
do and leave others to determine their own destiny. And I have no time
for the "arrogant" ones. Its their problem and they should solve it.

The world is full of good guys and some bad ones. That is why life is
so interesting and exciting. Going to China was interesting and exciting.
It was like a new life, a different life for sure. But home is a tiny bit more comfortable!