|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
gusto
Joined: 15 Feb 2010
Posts: 6
|
 Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:43 am Post subject: Thanks again Sugar and Spice. |
 |
|
Your information is very helpful. Your insight is what we were looking for. I would have sent this as a pm, but I haven't posted at least 5 messages.
We all appreciate your recommendations. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
mat chen,
Thank you for your contribution to this topic. You are right, I don't realize the situation that you mentioned in your post as I am only aware of the situation with Peace Corps Volunteers in the People's Republic of China and not the situation with other volunteers groups in China. Again, when I refer to Peace Corps Volunteers, I will write "Volunteers" with a capital V and I will continue to only discuss the situation of the US Peace Corps in China.
| mat chen wrote: |
| Fat Chris what you also don't realize is that volunteers are giving a false impression of teachers. Volunteers come here with loads of cash, expensive cameras and computers. Not many people can take a year off their lives to teach English. Every volunteer I have met was well heeled. |
People who become Volunteers are not entering the priesthood. There's no vow of poverty. So Volunteers bring expensive cameras and computers to China? Is that really an issue? And regular FTs don't bring expensive camera and computers to China?
Finally, how is that "giving a false impression of teachers"? Shouldn't the "impression of a teacher" be decided by what a person does in the classroom and not by their computers, cameras, and trips?
| mat chen wrote: |
| They thought I was like the last five who bought things like multi million dolar [sic] medical machines for hospitals. |
As the Peace Corps has had a long-standing relationship with the colleges and universities where it works, the schools know very clearly what they are getting (and what they are not getting) with a Peace Corps Volunteer. There is no expectation of receiving "multi-million dollar medical machines for hospitals" or anything similar as Volunteers have never brought such things to the colleges and universities.
| mat chen wrote: |
| Anyone who is a teacher can figure out how much money schools are pulling in. They are participating in corruption and are also exploiting students with low level education. |
What I'm having trouble with in these posts is that the "C word" (corruption) is being thrown around a bit, but there are very few, if really any, concrete and specific examples of corrupt and exploitative practices being mentioned in the posts in these topics. Again, tell us concretely and specifically how the schools are engaging in corruption and exploiting students.
I'm not necessarily saying that there is no corruption. I am just interested in reading concrete and specific examples to gain a clearer perspective.
| mat chen wrote: |
| Now how does the Peace Corps justify sending people to a country with the largest army in the world, that also increased military spending by 15% last year? |
If this figure is indeed true, then precisely for this reason Peace Corps Volunteers are sent to the People's Republic of China. The focus is on teaching English and engaging in grass-roots work with the ole' 老百姓 and underprivileged students. The sole focus is on regular citizens connecting with other regular citizens.
Let's not point fingers at Volunteers while exempting regular FTs who are in the same situation, that is, working as English teachers in the PRC. So, I'll ask as well then: how do regular FTs in China justify working in a country "with the largest army in the world, that also increased military spending by 15% last year?"
Regards,
fat_chris
Last edited by fat_chris on Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kukiv
Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 328
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| What I'm having trouble with in these posts is that the "C word" (corruption) is being thrown around a bit, but there are very few, |
I also have a bit of experience with aid programs - nothing much to do with English Teaching - but with projects where there are many similarities - and I would suggest that for the sake of a more informed and expert argument that the aid/volunteer detractors drop the 'C' word and go onto the 'E' word - exploitation.
Yes I'm afraid that around the corner of any journey into trying to aid the poor and needy there lies a vulture or two ready to exploit the situation - and try and gather a few of them pennies into their own corner. In the case of teaching projects and volunteer teachers - well these can soon become catalysts for a bigger business operation - which I suppose is aid in it's own way by supporting the local economy with yet another money making resource. But those who are pure in heart with regard to what their efforts and exploits leads towards - be careful - you could well conclude that some of your sweat and labour has been channeled towards what you may consider the undeserving goals of personal gain by some of those in charge.
But for those who run these projects, it's their profession - those who organise in name of the aid agencies are often volunteers who jumped the fence and became professional aid givers. For them to be big shots in this business they need projects - and more projects - that's how you go up in the world of aid giver. China is an obvious place for them to ply their trade - sometimes, to make the job easier they turn a blind eye at certain situations - they may allow for a tad of exploration of the volunteer teachers in return for an easier future with regard to their projects. From my experience no corruption is involved - no greasing of palms - just averting a gaze or two from some possible exploitation of a free workforce.
I think the real argument in this forum is where is it appropriate to find volunteer FT's and where is it a bit of a joke???
the idea of a university being able to import and pay FT's on one side and then being offered volunteer workers by an aid agency - is in my opinion rather amusing - and seems to be creating aid projects just for the sake of a - lets play at aid workers China trip - for the bored, rich and privileged - and of course adding yet another project title to the professional aid organisers portfolio  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kukiv
Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 328
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
As an extra to that last post - I'd just like to draw attention to another fat chris statement -
| Quote: |
| The sole focus is on regular citizens connecting with other regular citizens. |
with all the deserving situations of need found around the globe, with regard to organising and sending volunteers to China that must be about the flimsiest reasoning I've ever come across for a country to use public funds on an overseas aid project!!!!!!!!!!
If there weren't so many desperate people looking for help, on which public funds and donations could be well spent - it would indeed be very funny!!!!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
Former China Peace Corps Volunteer Peter Hessler (1996-1998) recently wrote this article for The New Yorker's website regarding the Peace Corps (specifically in China) and what it is about.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2010/03/peace-corps.html
| kukiv wrote: |
| fat_chris wrote: |
| The sole focus is on regular citizens connecting with other regular citizens. |
with all the deserving situations of need found around the globe, with regard to organising and sending volunteers to China that must be about the flimsiest reasoning I've ever come across for a country to use public funds on an overseas aid project!!!!!!!!!! |
Peace Corps is not a traditional aid program in that providing technical assistance to locals is only one element of the program. Serving as a grass-roots diplomatic program is another equally important element of the Peace Corps, hence, my previous comment about regular citizens connecting with other regular citizens.
To dismiss this comment as flimsy only shows a basic misunderstanding of what the Peace Corps is and what it is all about.
Regards,
fat_chris |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kukiv
Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 328
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Serving as a grass-roots diplomatic program is another equally important element of the Peace Corps |
So you guys have nothing to fear from those peace craps teaching volunteers - they aint no FT's they're diplomats - nothing at all flimsy in that
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
kukiv,
A very dignified response.
Regards,
fat_chris |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kukiv
Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 328
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
Chris I worked 8 years at Red Cross refugee centers - in the case of international aid - even so called diplomatic aid - I have a very full backpack of experience that allows me to supply appropriate levels of dignity.
But dignified or not - how do the Chinese employers treat the diplomatic work status of those volunteers????? Aren't FT's in China, of any kind, supposed to sign contracts that stamps out the stuff that includes doing any kind of political work - or are they more social messengers where these volunteers tell about life in the states - and how many cars and TV's they own in the land of the free??????
I think ordinary FT's are already doing exactly the same kind of job as your peace corps guys - no wonder they get a bit cheesed off when your people turn up, in the same schools, for free |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kukiv wrote: |
| Chris I worked 8 years at Red Cross refugee centers - in the case of international aid - even so called diplomatic aid - I have a very full backpack of experience that allows me to supply appropriate levels of dignity. |
Kukiv,
I do respect your experience and appreciate that you have shared it here. Nonetheless, it's not an excuse to be surly and arrogant.
| kukiv wrote: |
| But dignified or not - how do the Chinese employers treat the diplomatic work status of those volunteers????? Aren't FT's in China, of any kind, supposed to sign contracts that stamps out the stuff that includes doing any kind of political work - or are they more social messengers where these volunteers tell about life in the states - and how many cars and TV's they own in the land of the free?????? |
Naturally, the regular citizen to regular citizen contact that I previously mentioned goes beyond car and TVs. Sure, Volunteers, like regular FTs, are not permitted to proselytize and spread political messages bashing any government or promoting another.
| kukiv wrote: |
| I think ordinary FT's are already doing exactly the same kind of job as your peace corps guys |
Do regular FTs do exactly the same kind of work as Peace Corps Volunteers? Do regular FTs:
--set up and maintain English resource rooms and libraries and solicit book donations to strenghten these resources rooms?
--engage in regular teacher training throughout their tenure in China to gain new teaching ideas, upgrade their skills, and connect with both American and Chinese teachers?
--assist, set up and run summer teaching workshops for Chinese teachers, allowing them to share and exchange with other teachers?
--engage in and carry out HIV/AIDS awareness programs?
--work with local teachers of Chinese to study Mandarin and be able to use it well enough to connect with non-English speaking locals in the community, thus giving the ole laobaixing a chance to become familiar with an American perspective, in contrast to a perspective that might otherwise have been only gained from CCTV or the local Party newspaper?
How many regular FTs are engaged in these kinds of projects in the People's Republic of China? Are regular FTs doing exactly the same kind of work as Peace Corps Volunteers?
Furthermore, how many FTs are returning to their home countries to continue China-related work and spread what China is like to the citizens of their own country?
Henceforth, this is the importance of continuing the Peace Corps in the People' Republic of China.
| kukiv wrote: |
| no wonder they get a bit cheesed off when your people turn up, in the same schools, for free |
As I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, Peace Corps has been in the People's Republic of China since 1993 and has well established relationships with the colleges and universities where Volunteers are present. There is no "turning up". If this really riles up regular FTs at the same schools where Peace Corps Volunteers are, it seems a bit odd that these regular FTs would choose to work at these college and universities and continue to let themselves be "cheesed".
Regards,
fat_chris |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mr. Kalgukshi
Mod Team
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 6613
Location: Need to know basis only.
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
If the topic is not discussed in a civil manner, the thread will no longer be available.
Last edited by Mr. Kalgukshi on Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:19 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kukiv
Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 328
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
Kind of interesting to look at the list of do-good stuff the peace corps guys are supposed to be involved with -
| Quote: |
Do regular FTs do exactly the same kind of work as Peace Corps Volunteers? Do regular FTs:
--set up and maintain English resource rooms and libraries and solicit book donations to strenghten these resources rooms?
--engage in regular teacher training throughout their tenure in China to gain new teaching ideas, upgrade their skills, and connect with both American and Chinese teachers?
--assist, set up and run summer teaching workshops for Chinese teachers, allowing them to share and exchange with other teachers?
--engage in and carry out HIV/AIDS awareness programs?
--work with local teachers of Chinese to study Mandarin and be able to use it well enough to connect with non-English speaking locals in the community, thus giving the ole laobaixing a chance to become familiar with an American perspective, in contrast to a perspective that might otherwise have been only gained from CCTV or the local Party newspaper? |
....with the opening quote of the OP -
| Quote: |
| Case in point: Chongqing Teacher's College, Si Gong Li, Chongqing. I use to work for this college and came across American Peace Corp members also working there as volunteers. I told them then that they were not needed here, that they are needed in poor rural areas, that this school was paying me and other teachers 4500rmb a month and that was 5 years ago. They said they would talk to their superiors about this. |
apparently the peace corp are still in this university - and have taken over far more teaching positions from FT's
Then lets take one of Chris's own quotes into play -
| Quote: |
I take your quote one step further: the chances of ANY FT, whether a Volunteer or not, ending up making money for some Chinese crook can be at least 90%.
Agreed.
So goes the way of the walk in the PRC. |
Any civil minded thinking person - who looks at the rest of the world (let alone China), observes real areas of need, ponders how tax payers money could be well used in providing aid to those who truly require help - could draw their own conclusions. Any FT who finds the professional rent-paying rug pulled from under them by a volunteer - well they may have a less civil way of looking at this problem.
Thanks Chris for the insight you've given us into the work of the peace corp - I'm sure those guys who have to share an FT working place with them will now far better understand why they are there. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
You're welcome.
Thank you for sharing your insights as well in this discussion, kukiv.
Regards,
fat_chris |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
