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nateliu99
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 72
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 Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:37 pm Post subject: Where to go if you have good qualifications? |
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Hello, I'm looking for advice:
I have a bachelor's degree in science, a California teaching credential, master's degree in education, 6 years of inner city teaching experience in Los Angeles, and for the last 6 months I have been in Shanghai with a private english afterschool program. They were a great way for me to get my foot in the door here in shanghai, and they were also one of the only places that would hire me, I'm an ABC
I actually really love my job, it is so much fun and stress free, just has really awkward working hours and not a lot of vacation time. The pay is ok at 10,000 a month.
My other friends have constantly told me I should be working at a school where i can get way more money. Like an international school. And one friend suggested Taiwan.
Questions:
1. What kind of money can I expect with my qualifications?
2. Would working at an international school be substantially more work?
3. Any comment on the state of the Taiwan education market vs. Shanghai?
4. How is the most efficient way to search and apply for these jobs? Search their websites? What about International School Services? (ISS) Is it worth it?
Thanks for any advice you can give me |
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drjtrekker
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 251
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| Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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Where to go with all that edumacation....and in science no less....
hmmm....
CALI!! |
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SnoopBot
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 740
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:09 am Post subject: Re: Where to go if you have good qualifications? |
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| nateliu99 wrote: |
Hello, I'm looking for advice:
I have a bachelor's degree in science, a California teaching credential, master's degree in education, 6 years of inner city teaching experience in Los Angeles, and for the last 6 months I have been in Shanghai with a private english afterschool program. They were a great way for me to get my foot in the door here in shanghai, and they were also one of the only places that would hire me, I'm an ABC
I actually really love my job, it is so much fun and stress free, just has really awkward working hours and not a lot of vacation time. The pay is ok at 10,000 a month.
My other friends have constantly told me I should be working at a school where i can get way more money. Like an international school. And one friend suggested Taiwan.
Questions:
1. What kind of money can I expect with my qualifications?
2. Would working at an international school be substantially more work?
3. Any comment on the state of the Taiwan education market vs. Shanghai?
4. How is the most efficient way to search and apply for these jobs? Search their websites? What about International School Services? (ISS) Is it worth it?
Thanks for any advice you can give me |
Hello, glad to welcome you to Dave's ESL. I have the same qualifications as you except I do not have the public school inner-city experience. I taught in China for 7-years.
I'm now teaching in the USC university system, also in California.
Your question is a hard one to answer because China often doesn't value those with real experience and education. You must look at joint-university positions that hire directly in the USA and then send you abroad.
International schools often have a network already setup with host schools in western countries, these positions are difficult to get as a local hire and many do not even advertise open positions in China.
In the last few years, many of these institutions would exchange Chinese teachers for their teachers to work abroad, with these types of agreements, open positions are difficult.
My suggestion is to look at other countries where qualifications are strict and pay is a reflection of these standards. China is the sweatshop of the ESL industry, most that are qualified have additional income to compliment the low-pay positions. Many teach privates or move onto better positions outside the ESL circuits.
Content level teaching such as Physics, Calculus and other specialized positions are a better choice of focus than just the TESOL market.
My best positions were not teaching TESOL/ESL but using my MBA and experience to teach business flavored courses. This is what you might need to do.
If money is not a concern, my suggestion is to find the lowest hour university position (z-visa) regardless of pay level and enjoy China as a break from the bankrupt and horrible broken school system we have in California.
If you need the income, look at secondary jobs that you can build up a network of private groups to boost your income.
Those high-paying positions do exist but so do the longer hours and stress levels. Networking in the industry is almost a requirement for finding one of these positions.
Check at the US embassy or do an Internet search for true "international schools" that the embassy recommends and apply directly to those institutions.
I cannot give you advice about Shanghai, I spent most of my time in the Beijing area. Shanghai has ESL job fairs, look out for them and check them out too, sometimes a surprise position will be offered at those fairs.
I have seen the discrimination with non-White looking teachers, this is a reality but.. if a position only wants to hire someone to generate $$ because they have a "White face" then this is an indicator that they wouldn't value your true education or experience. You're better off finding this out before signing a contract.
I wish you luck.
PS If you're happy in your position and they treat you well without the typical Chinese inspired nonsense, don't listen to others tell you that you should be looking for the top paying positions. My best time in China was when i taught 6-hours a week for 5600 RMB a month in Beijing. I travelled all over China and had a wonderful time experiencing what China has to offer. I taught 6-hours on a Weds, which allowed me to spend the other 6-days doing other things. one of my most stressful positions was at an International School for almost 30K RMB a month that had me working 6-days a week at around 50-hours plus. |
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Renegade_o_Funk
Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 125
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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...
Last edited by Renegade_o_Funk on Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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thefuzz
Joined: 10 Aug 2009
Posts: 271
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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With your qualifications you should try looking for work outside of Mainland China. Try the Middle East...or if you want to stay in Asia you can contact CfBT and apply for a job in Brunei (salaries are also good) or join the NET scheme through the Education Bureau in Hong Kong (also great salaries and close to the Mainland).
Schools in Mainland China don't really appreciate good qualifications...they are looking for Dancing Monkeys. |
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SnoopBot
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 740
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| thefuzz wrote: |
With your qualifications you should try looking for work outside of Mainland China. Try the Middle East...or if you want to stay in Asia you can contact CfBT and apply for a job in Brunei (salaries are also good) or join the NET scheme through the Education Bureau in Hong Kong (also great salaries and close to the Mainland).
Schools in Mainland China don't really appreciate good qualifications...they are looking for Dancing Monkeys. |
The HK NET program is something to look into with generous benefits and much better conditions than the majority of the PRC positions. |
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nateliu99
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 72
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| thefuzz wrote: |
With your qualifications you should try looking for work outside of Mainland China. Try the Middle East...or if you want to stay in Asia you can contact CfBT and apply for a job in Brunei (salaries are also good) or join the NET scheme through the Education Bureau in Hong Kong (also great salaries and close to the Mainland).
Schools in Mainland China don't really appreciate good qualifications...they are looking for Dancing Monkeys. |
Haha, the dancing monkeys thing is funny because it is so true
i'll check the education bureau thing, we'll see
thanks for the advice |
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SnoopBot
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 740
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| nateliu99 wrote: |
| thefuzz wrote: |
With your qualifications you should try looking for work outside of Mainland China. Try the Middle East...or if you want to stay in Asia you can contact CfBT and apply for a job in Brunei (salaries are also good) or join the NET scheme through the Education Bureau in Hong Kong (also great salaries and close to the Mainland).
Schools in Mainland China don't really appreciate good qualifications...they are looking for Dancing Monkeys. |
Haha, the dancing monkeys thing is funny because it is so true
i'll check the education bureau thing, we'll see
thanks for the advice |
It is funny, but mostly sad and true.
The university positions generally will not treat you like a dancing monkey especially the top 50 Chinese universities.
The private schools and ESL McMill's which cater to mostly younger children will do this though. It's not much different from teaching K-6 here in the USA, the problem though is with the style and content of what is being taught. You have almost zero ability to modify or suggest teaching strategies that you learned in your MEd program.
The Chinese will do all of this without working with you or listening to your input. Often the bottom line is $ oriented and entertainment based.
Thus, often the FT's will be tasked with some time of comic relief routine to make the lesson more entertaining hence the "Dancing Monkey" moniker.
I've seen almost every bad idea and exploitation level possible in these setups that Chinese owners use to generate more paying student groups. |
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nateliu99
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 72
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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i really like the HK NET program that i found on a website called teachaway,
The salary looks amazing, but they are saying that the interviews must be done in 3 locations in the U.S., umm...that would be pretty difficult for me as I am in shanghai at least until my sister's wedding in June. It would be easier for me to go to South Korea directly for an interview haha,
and i don't understand, because it does not say a deadline for any of these countries
I would also like to apply for jobs in south korea as well, but i think you can only pick one |
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SnoopBot
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 740
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| nateliu99 wrote: |
i really like the HK NET program that i found on a website called teachaway,
The salary looks amazing, but they are saying that the interviews must be done in 3 locations in the U.S., umm...that would be pretty difficult for me as I am in shanghai at least until my sister's wedding in June. It would be easier for me to go to South Korea directly for an interview haha,
and i don't understand, because it does not say a deadline for any of these countries
I would also like to apply for jobs in south korea as well, but i think you can only pick one |
Have a backup plan, often the NET program takes a few months before you are offered a position. In South Korea, you can more easily find a position until the NET program processing is completed.
Sometimes, it will take 1-full year before a position is avail for you.
You can always look into the generic university positions in Shanghai too.
Most of the top university paying positions in the TESOL field want you to have an MAEd in TESOL and Applied Linguistics and they deal with adults (university students) so the Public Teaching license is not useful. (You won't get paid extra for it)
However, the NET program would value this license as your target groups are K-12.
I've always taught at the university level as much as possible (mine is a MAEd TESOL) because I enjoy working with adults more than K-12 groups.
The biggest problem with PRC positions is the fact that the higher paying positions often are with the K-12 groups and not with the universities or adults (unless EMBA groups) so your experience and teaching license would be useful in one of those positions.
Exact opposite situation in the USA where the Public Teaching positions are the lowest paid (more stressful too) and the university positions are the highest paid and least stressful.
So if you're going to go into the university teaching area, you must be a little more selective to find a higher paying position that values your education level and experience. |
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nateliu99
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 72
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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Awesome advice Snoopbot
The program really takes that long to possibly get back to you??? Wow
right now the places I'm considering:
1. Hong Kong: the salaries seem to be more than Shanghai, and it looks pretty amazing as far as pictures go, like the city is right next to the jungle, filled out the teachaway online application, going to continue to check Dave's forum, already emailed a few ads, CON: They speak mostly Cantonese
2. Taiwan: Haven't seen a great salary yet, and Taiwan American School seems like they already filled all their positions, going to check with my buddy who may have contacts there, we'll see if anything comes of that. CONS: nothing, beautiful land, awesome food, nice culture
3. Stay in Shanghai: check with a contact I have hear that might be able to hook me up with a 20,000 rmb job or more, but that is a maybe of course, going to check in with Wall street English, I got a job offer from them in Tianjin last year, and for my qualifications they will offer 16,000 rmb starting off
4. TIE online, has anyone actually tried this yet? Has it led to anything good? I wouldn't hesitate to use it, but they do charge a fee |
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thefuzz
Joined: 10 Aug 2009
Posts: 271
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| Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:04 am Post subject: |
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Forget Teachaway...send your application directly to the EDB...this is what I did, passed all the interviews and written test (all done in Hong Kong so you don't need to travel to the US...on the application you can specify you want to attend the interview in Hong Kong) and am starting as a PNET from the coming school year (September 2010). Here is more info directly from the EDB website:
Primary NET (PNET):
http://www.edb.gov.hk/index.aspx?nodeID=1300&langno=1
Secondary NET (NET):
http://www.edb.gov.hk/index.aspx?nodeid=1301&langno=1
Just scroll to the bottom of each page and download the application files (in PDF). Print and fill them out, attach copies of all your academic credentials/qualification, your CV and reference letters from past jobs and mail everything to Hong Kong (they don't accept applications by email).
Recruitment is ongoing, but interviews take place only once or twice per year...I guess you just have to wait for a good job and trust me this is one of the best Foreign Teacher programs in Asia right now, so it is worth the wait (plus the money is excellent).
If you want more specific info, you can always PM me. |
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nateliu99
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 72
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| Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| wow, fuzz, thanks for the advice, that sounds really smart |
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ttorriel
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 193
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| Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| With those qualifications, would you mind expanding on why you'd come to China, rather than sticking it out on the "real world?" The real world being in the U.S. where you are. For me, I only want to be treated fairly here in China. I have an advanced professional degree and a master degree, but not official teaching credentials. So what would make you leave? |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing
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| Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:56 am Post subject: |
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I would look at an International School in Hong Kong, Shanghai, or Beijing, if you are interested China.
Shenyang was looking for a science teacher on this very website's ads... |
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