Job Discussion Forums

[johnslat]

Dear AjarnIam,

"OK, if we're going to rant..here goes."

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that there's really only one poster here who's "ranting."

I'm much more aligned with Justin's view:

" I guess I'm balanced in my cynicism- I've had excellent, and terrible, experiences with all varieties."

Regards,
John

[coledavis]

I find it rather perturbing that some native speakers are also going in for this 'not a real teacher stuff'. This is the way to keep a vicious cycle going. I always emphasise to my students and colleagues that non-natives have longer training and a better understanding of grammar. It's true and hardly encourages a desire for tit-for-tat. As it is, students and teachers on the whole judge me by what they actually get from me.

[AjarnIam]

Please forgive my unprofessional behavior in here yesterday. I'm sure the situation I am dealing with is very isolated, and I shouldn't try to bring it into a general ESL discussion. My apologies!

[PattyFlipper]

[basiltherat]

Clealy the extent of this whole issue depends largely in what part of the world one is working.

In many parts of the Arab world, local instructors tend to try and 'make friends' with their students by, for example, altering exam grades or, when given the opportunity, by letting beginner or elementary students jump a level. For us native speakers; not only is this unjust but it also makes our job more difficult when students are passed on to us (who conduct higher level classes).

All this is down to 'wasta'. i.e. the local teacher is looking for a trainee with authority or who has something the teacher might need or be able to access for him, so the teacher has to pamper the trainee in order to get it; thus the 'friendship' required and the 'favour' the teacher does for him.

This sort of behaviour has been around since ancient times in the Arab world. One has either to accept it and deal with it as best one can, or simply get out of the region.

Contrast that to Indonesia where over the 25 years or so I spent there, not that I can recall did this ever happen.

Best
Basil

[coledavis]

[Otterman Ollie]

Been reading this thread with interest, perhaps I can give a Turkish perspective. This is at university level, an English medium one to boot! I have to say here that the transference of L2 ability is very much down to the level of exposure the learners get . I share an office (have done on a number of different times) with non natives. Their whole concept of what the language is about is regulated by grammar structures, its the way their learnt, its the way they teach, mostly by translation as well. How they can sit their giving a learner 1 to 1 tuition using L1 all the time baffles me! One day the wise old owls who run the place will wake up and realize that the only way any proficiency of L2 can be achieved is by usage within and outside the classroom, u no practical stuff. The non native speakers know their grammar structures pretty well, but as has been mentioned ask them ANY question that has noting to do with stuff they teach and they don't have a clue!

[santi84]

In Canada, my favourite ESL and TESL instructor was from the Czech Republic (well, at pushing 60 years old, I'm sure she was from Czechoslovakia). While non-native speakers may face a lot of discrimination, those who persevere with a passion for ESL and TESL can really stand out as exceptional.

I did have one opposite experience with a teacher from Taiwan (native from Taiwan with about 10 years teaching EFL in a public high school, I believe she also had an MA in English Language). It was a disaster. She refused to deviate from a Taiwanese-style of teaching English (grammar sheets, grammar drills, grammar lectures, etc - in a class of Korean housewives who need basic conversation skills) and had a poor command of the language herself. I ended up having to finish some of her lessons (and I was the classroom volunteer doing experience for my BA!). I don't think it was an issue of being a non-native speaker - but being inflexible and poorly trained.

[spiral78]

Here in the Netherlands, there have been some studies indicating that non-native teachers tend to
1. cling to a book-based approach
2. over-value grammar
3. have difficulty separating the minor details from errors that impede meaning or make an incorrect impression

NOT all, by any means, but they do seem to be fairly common tendencies.

In defence of a large segment of non-native teachers, in my experience they have a really strong and positive role with lower-level learners. A teacher-centred approach is comfortable for many students, and a more directive attitude is familiar, and can make a nice bridge to those of us who prefer a more learner-centred/driven classroom.

I hasten to add that I work with quite a few non-native teachers who are certainly as proficient as anyone else I know in learner-centred methods and are entirely happy to overlook grammatical errors that do not impede meaning (meaning that the non-natives are on the same wavelength as many of us native speakers who have upper-level quals and experience in SLA).