Job Discussion Forums

[CThomas]

Ah... just found it again. HuffPost article on asia's Dog Meat Trade: A Look Inside a Seedy World. Worth a read.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/01/asias-dog-meat-trade-a-lo_n_375249.html

[mark_in_saigon]

But having seen the way they treat animals, I don't really think one can say that one trade in animals is a lot better or worse than another. I continue to think the issue for us is that this is not an environment to force any other creature, human or animal, into. The comment attached to a linked thing on that article referenced a cholera risk based upon dog consumption. That sounds like a real issue to me, more so than if it was a stray or a pet or whatever. Once they are here, parts are parts. One of my vn friends told me a story about dogs and some of their eating habits in the impoverished areas in VN. It is too distasteful to discuss, but really gives me pause about wanting to eat dogs. When I tried them in the north, I did not get a good picture, as the restaurant was not serving very fresh food, so the dog was kinda nasty, to my taste. I have no problem eating just about anything they serve, I ate bugs, which I found to be better than the dog, yet in my mind, grosser. I don't really care too much about what I am eating if it is not unfit for consumption and tastes okay.

[anubistaima]

There's no quarantine in Vietnam. I arranged my arrival in advance through a local vet who deals with foreigners bringing pets into Vietnam. She did all the paperwork in advance and when I arrived in Hanoi (at 5am), the airport vet was waiting for me with the paperwork already stamped. He didn't even looked at my pets. I signed in two places and was on my way. About people not eating your dog, I disagree. I know at least three foreigners whose dogs/cats were stolen from their own yard. So they ended up either being eaten or bred for business. In either case, that's enough to make me wary about my neighbors. I keep my animals under close watch. There are many stray dogs in Hanoi. Or at least there are many dogs wandering the streets. Maybe some of them have a home but they are out in the streets anyway, and that's where my dog was attacked. I don't have a lot of respect for people who eat dogs. Before anybody says anything about other animals, I'm a vegetarian, so I obviously don't believe in eating any animals. Still, eating dogs and cats is different. Maybe it's a cultural thing. Fine. I'd buy it 100 years ago. It's time to evolve. Dogs are also pets in Vietnam, so it's not like they're bred exclusively for meat, in which case I would understand (maybe) the concept of them being the same as cows. They're not, not even here.

[mark_in_saigon]

Yeah, well, you don't know WHAT you are eating when you eat here anyway. I don't have a lot of respect for the descriptions. A VN friend was just telling me about the cats being taken for food, who knows what they are sold as? Who cares? If you are eating meat here, you are eating parts. If you are a vegetarian, it is still in there, sorry folks. It is in the grease, it is in the pan, it is in your system, you are part of it, and it is part of you, and parts is parts. I don't have a lot of respect for parts, other than the respect I show by eating them. By the way, do vegetarians respect the eating of bugs? Hope so, because when you eat veggies, you will get bugs in there too, just so you will know. It is all so complex, isn't it, and we thought it was so simple.

[anubistaima]

@ Mark. I think it's safe to assume you're not a pet owner. For sure you're not an animal lover, since you don't have any problems eating dog. As such, it's impossible to make you understand why somebody would want to bring their dog/cat along when moving to Vietnam. No, it's not better to give them away to a stranger back home. These animals are obviously part of our families. When you adopt them, you are taking responsibility for them. They're not like your mother. They're like your children. You're not going to dump your kids with a neighbor before you move to Vietnam simply because it's inconvenient to bring them along. Suck it up. You had the kids, so you deal with it. Again, I don't expect people who are not pet owners to understand so I mostly ignore their reaction. If you're a pet owner and want to bring yours along to Vietnam, there are ways to do it safely. Just get in touch with others who have done it before.

As for vegetarianism, this is not something I get into arguments over. I'm a vegetarian because I believe it's the right thing to do. I don't go around trying to convince everybody else to give up meat. In the end, it's not my business. I do have a problem with people who eat dogs/cats. Nothing will convince me otherwise. You eat dog, you're a step lower in the evolution chain. People who eat dog probably don't care what I think. That's just fine. It doesn't make them any less ignorant.

[mark_in_saigon]

I will take notes on your process, it seems very advanced. It is a good way to manage your affairs, how you can call people ignorant but not get into arguments over it. I am pleased that people are not offended . I am at the step on the evolutionary chain where I will not characterize your level of intelligence, perhaps you view that as a lower step (without insulting me, or trying to start an argument of course). I am always pleased to see what a delightful group we are, how courteous and thoughtful, as if a family sharing the burdens of a difficult life together. (Not difficult compared to the dogs and cats, however).

But before we get distracted by our happiness in sharing these thoughts, let us not forget that this really should just be about what it is like for people bringing pets over. Bottom line, the pets are in grave danger of being eaten, not to mention having a very difficult life. Hate to tell you, at this step of the evolutionary chain (VN), we are all gonna have a little dog and cat and rat and dirt (use your imagination on this one) in our food. Maybe not every meal, but it is part of the cycle. Try as you will, animals are in the food, as well as a bunch of other stuff. I am very sorry about this. I know a bit about food, and how they handle it here. You are not avoiding anything, unless you import your food from the west, or dine from cans and frozen products, and even then, I have my doubts. Someone cleverly suggested to suck it up. Dog lovers, cat lovers, all, that is just the way it is, it may not be pretty, it may not be how you like it, but it is the way it is.