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oldboy
Joined: 03 Jan 2010
Posts: 38
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 Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:49 am Post subject: Best plan of action if you don't have a degree. |
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Hey everyone,
Okay so first of all please avoid telling me to get a degree, I have already been accepted to go to university next year (woo Sussex)
I have a Trinity TESOL from St. Georges International - London, bits of teaching experience, lots of work experience etc
What is the best plan of action I could take?
Should I keep in contact with employers and wait for a invitation letter (is that likely to happen?)
Should I be happy with less well paid jobs and jobs in cities which are less attractive than others?
What should be a minimum amount per month I should accept?
Are there any areas in particular that are more relaxed on degrees?
Any other advice would be fantastic, thanks a lot guys.
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Sugar & Spice
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 73
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| Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:02 am Post subject: |
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Get a job a McDonalds or Arthur Treecher's Fish & Chips instead. You'll wind up making around the same.
China is an amazing place with a bunch of nice sights to see, but, ....
Don't be stupid "chap/oldboy".
That was a hearty laugh - "oldboy".
Slick Fox
The problem with Chinese "students" and others is their lack of acumen in regards to punctuation. What ever happened to capitalization? I know this is just the internet, BUT, you can gauge a lot about a person's ability from how they type.
I tell my "writing" students to treat everything they type as a formal letter - email, sms etc....
I'd rather not type it!!
Research is King. J/P.
Last edited by Sugar & Spice on Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ttorriel
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 193
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| Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:07 am Post subject: |
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Yes, it is simple... get a degree. There is no reason the job market here should cater to those without a proper education. That is simply how the job market works.
You clearly know that but feel that you should get some sort of exception. Why?
Go to university, learn what's learned, and then meet the legal requirements of the host country in which you wish to teach. |
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oldboy
Joined: 03 Jan 2010
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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You inability to answer straight forward questions is to say the least, sad.
The whole point of this thread is to not go into the degree vs. no degree argument as so many already have, but just to help provide some helpful information so that those without degrees can maximize their success rate.
As we all know in the past many people without degree's have successfully found work, so although it is frowned upon, it's still do-able.
Now if you going down the route of being on some kind of 'educational high ground' where you feel that any one without a degree is inadequate, well I can tell you first hand that is incorrect. By the end of my Trinity TESOL course, I had achieved higher marks than nearly all the degree holders in my class, and unlike many of them, I did not have to re-sit or refer any of my assignments.
I don't want to get a job in mac donalds because I love teaching.
I AM getting a degree, but my course does not start till next year.
So please, please, please, save all your unwanted, unproductive opinions and stick to trying to actually help with my situation rather than criticize it. |
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Sugar & Spice
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 73
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| Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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Whatever.
I have a bridge for sale in Brooklyn, are you interested? |
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The Ever-changing Cleric
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 1523
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| Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:53 pm Post subject: Re: Best plan of action if you don't have a degree. |
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| oldboy wrote: |
1. Should I keep in contact with employers and wait for a invitation letter (is that likely to happen?)
2. Should I be happy with less well paid jobs and jobs in cities which are less attractive than others?
3. What should be a minimum amount per month I should accept?
4. Are there any areas in particular that are more relaxed on degrees?
5. What is the best plan of action I could take?
Any other advice would be fantastic, thanks a lot guys.
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1. not much to keep in contact with. if they want you they'll hire you right away. but schools aren't in the habit of keeping in touch with people they're not interested in hiring right now.
2. without a degree your options are more limited, but not impossible. get your foot in the door somewhere and go from there. a short term job for one term at a university might be a good start.
3. the minimum amount you should accept is really up to you. there's no hard scale of salaries here for these jobs. but anything less than 4500 per month and 16-18 hours per week is not very good.
4. the chance of getting a job in one place w/o a degree are as good as anywhere else. depends more on who needs what at any given moment in time, and if you come along at the right moment, you can luck out.
5. the best plan of action has already been noted. get a degree. why not start one part time and get going? it'll be the best investment you ever make. an esl job in china is actually well suited for someone doing a degree. work 16-18 hours per week with plenty of time to study.
| oldboy wrote: |
| As we all know in the past many people without degree's have successfully found work, so although it is frowned upon, it's still do-able. |
in my opinion, it would only be frowned upon if you lied and said you had a degree just to get the job. but if you dont have one and the school knows it and still hires you, then more power to you.
good luck in the search. |
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oldboy
Joined: 03 Jan 2010
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry Sugar that was less directed at you, more at the other dude.
I'll take your bridge, how much is p&p to London? |
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oldboy
Joined: 03 Jan 2010
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Much love Cleric, very helpful |
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Sugar & Spice
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 73
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| Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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Take it easy "oldboy".
Go with the flow kid. |
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ttorriel
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 193
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| Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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But you've not responded to the basic point. Why should you be hired over those with a university education? You may not like the fact that I'm blunt with my statement/questions, but it's entirely a valid point. The market would be flooded with the unqualified. From the professional and economic point of view... why should you be allowed to acquire a job without the core background?
No, you don't feel the need to respond to me properly. You don't like my answer, but it's COMPLETELY valid.
There are many locales that will hire those without degrees, just scan the job advertisements here at Dave's. Of course, taking one of the ESL courses is of benefit, but NOT the on-line ones; actual in-classroom courses are the best. |
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oldboy
Joined: 03 Jan 2010
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| ttorriel wrote: |
But you've not responded to the basic point. Why should you be hired over those with a university education? You may not like the fact that I'm blunt with my statement/questions, but it's entirely a valid point. The market would be flooded with the unqualified. From the professional and economic point of view... why should you be allowed to acquire a job without the core background?
No, you don't feel the need to respond to me properly. You don't like my answer, but it's COMPLETELY valid.
There are many locales that will hire those without degrees, just scan the job advertisements here at Dave's. Of course, taking one of the ESL courses is of benefit, but NOT the on-line ones; actual in-classroom courses are the best. |
Good thing mines not an online course then isn't it?
It's was a 120-hour - 4 week course at St. George International.
And if you actually read my full post, like I said, I performed better on the course than most of the trainee's that had degrees (I compared marks with other students.)
Perhaps you are incapable of teaching to a good standard without a degree, but that doesn't mean we all are..
If you read more of my post, you would have read I AM going to get a degree, I've been accepted onto my course (economics and international relations) already, but it doesn't start till next year.
Why do I think I should be hired over people with degrees?
Well first of all that's the employers choice and second of all, cause I will put everything I've got into being a good teacher. |
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tomstone
Joined: 09 Dec 2009
Posts: 293
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| Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| oldboy, check PM. |
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XiGua
Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 91
Location: Hunan
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| Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| oldboy wrote: |
And if you actually read my full post, like I said, I performed better on the course than most of the trainee's that had degrees (I compared marks with other students.)
Why do I think I should be hired over people with degrees?
Well first of all that's the employers choice and second of all, cause I will put everything I've got into being a good teacher. |
This is all interview jargon that EVERYONE says. Granted you may be a good teacher, but there's nothing special about your situation that will give employers a positive impression of you at first glance other than you have TESOL, but you have no degree. Which says you didn't take the time to go to school for a few years, but you took 4 weeks out of your busy life to learn "all about TESOL."
Not trying to sound like i'm attacking you, i'm just saying there are PLENTY of people in China that say the exact same thing you are saying and there's no reason for employers to give you a second look without something as important as a degree.
That being said, I have come across many "teachers" in China with less qualifications than you who have jobs. Most of them are from recruiting agencies though that create fake degrees and certs for you without your knowledge. I've met people with no degree and no TESOL, and i've also met freshly graduated HIGH SCHOOLERS teaching. So jobs are there but like I said these people all went through a recruiter to get theirs so I don't know about solo job searching with no degree. |
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Jayray
Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Posts: 373
Location: Back East
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| Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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If the school needs a body bad enough, it'll hire him.
The OP might just find a suitable career if he puts the time and energy into what it takes to be a teacher.
Teaching isn't a piece of cake back home, and it's no joyride in China either. |
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AdrianG4
Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 160
Location: Harbin, China
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:28 am Post subject: |
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[quote="oldboy"]
| ttorriel wrote: |
But you've not responded to the basic point. Why should you be hired over those with a university education? You may not like the fact that I'm blunt with my statement/questions, but it's entirely a valid point. The market would be flooded with the unqualified. From the professional and economic point of view... why should you be allowed to acquire a job without the core background?
No, you don't feel the need to respond to me properly. You don't like my answer, but it's COMPLETELY valid.
There are many locales that will hire those without degrees, just scan the job advertisements here at Dave's. Of course, taking one of the ESL courses is of benefit, but NOT the on-line ones; actual in-classroom courses are the best. |
Because he has a Trinity TESOL ? I mean, that's sufficient enough evidence that he's dedicated to being a decent teacher -- even more so than a degree in something totally unrelated to the teachings of friggin' English grammar. Look, it's O.K. to be proud of your degree, but accept that you're in a field filled with "unprofessional" teachers that are actually quite capable and more than apt just based on their dedication and love for the job. We're all native speakers, right ? So by default - if you're decent at grammar - we're all in the same level. Well, except for those with actual teaching degrees, but otherwise, quite the same level. I know that hurts -- I did the community college thing, and I have a TESOL, I volunteer when I'm in the states and am on my way to doing the TESOL Dip.
I don't know why finishing my B.A. in an unrelated field would make me more qualified.
This is not aerospace science,
it's freaking English. |
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