Job Discussion Forums

[leeroy]

Generally, teachers that I have worked with have not felt comfortable teaching phonology. Very few know the IPA script (note my correct usage, scot47 ) - even fewer have any idea what a "linking consonant" is - "plosives" and "fricatives" is the kind of terminology reserved for the select few. Yet most teachers who've been at it more than a couple of months could tell you the difference between the Present Continuous and the Present Simple, CELTA or no.

Grammar and Vocabulary are given far more weight by the average teacher than phonology; one could be forgiven for thinking that they are more important. I beg to differ. I would like to put forward the notion that (in my classes at least) most problems with my comprehending the learners comes not from their incorrect usage of participles, nor their saying "teacher, my tram was late today" (when they meant bus). Pronunciation is (arguably) one of the biggest inhibitors to comprehension, far bigger than grammatical or lexical accuracy. And yet it is relegated to the occasional (and differently shaded) "Pronunciation box" in each chapter of the coursebook - a quick "spot the schwa" activity in-between the considerably beefier grammar sections and reading texts.

Even when the students' pronunciation is not so awful that we simply can't understand them, it makes a far bigger impact than it is given credit for. When most native speakers speak, "I scream" and "Ice cream" sounds identical (Pronunciation in Use, Nick Hancock). For most students it does not. Having good pronunciation goes further beyond simply being understood - it is far more important to native speakers (or, should I say, listeners) in terms of initial impression than whether or not the student correctly utilised the Past Perfect or Past Perfect Continuous.

As I understand it, for most teachers (and I'm not including those on this forum as an accurate representation of "most teachers") phonology is covered on an ad-hoc basis...

S: I nid more marney for shopping
T: No! I need more money for shopping!

This is good - but phonology should be covered pre-emptively too - not simply as a reaction to an emerging error but as an area of language that has been timetabled for study the same as lexis and grammar is.

How do we, as native speakers, pronounce "Holland Park"? For me, it goes something like /hol'mpa:k/ ('=schwa). The complexities of why /n/+/plosiveA/+/plosiveB/ = /m/+/plosiveB/ are not simple, they could easily rival "will vs. going to", both in scope of intricacy and importance.

The materials and knowledge both already exist for English teachers to give phonology the attention it deserves - and yet for the most part it still suffers in neglect.

It should be focused on more.

(phew!)

[Shaman]

Teaching the various pronunciations of -ough is usually good for at least one student meltdown.

Shaman

[SueH]

Interesting. I'm recently started some ESOl classes here in the UK and another point, which I'm sure is universal, is the fossilisation shown in some of the sts language, even when they've been here a few years.

With only having them for one 2 hour lesson a week doing a great deal on phonology is difficult, but with a large proportion of Chinese L1 I've concentrated on a few of the common problems. What I'm also trying to impress upon them is listening to themselves so that they can hear the differences and self correct. Fair bit of minimal pair work and so forth, which I can monitor quite well as my classes are pretty small.

Can anybody point me in the direction of ideas or material that concentrates on overcoming the problem of a Chinese student with a particularly bad case of staccato delivery?

[dmb]

"How do we, as native speakers, pronounce "Holland Park"? "

I can honestly say I've never had the need to pronounce it(I've never lived in London) Being Scottish I disagree with this RP notion of assimilation(progressive or regressive) Actually having just thought about it, in context, I might use a /b/ for the /p/, but the difference is very minimal

[Glenski]

Unless you deal with very young children, you are going to face serious fossilization of the L1. Most English courses deal with the rudiments of grammar in some way because that's what people can wade through more easily, and in my opinion there is less desire for most students to pronounce words perfectly. General communication seems to be the most prominent goal.

I have not been able to incorporate pronunciation into my eikaiwa or high school or private classes easily for the above reason, although I have tried a few times. I have two textbooks designed specifically for Japanese speakers (I work in Japan), but they simply display the proper mouth shapes, a few of the IPA designations, and then do very little beyond listing pairs of words with problem sounds.

Got a better book that someone could use, whether for a full-blown class solely on pronunciation, or as an add-on to regular courses?

[august03]

I teach Grade 1 at Primary School and all I teach is Oral English with the main focus on pronunciation (with an Aussie accent of course), what the hell else can I teach them - grammar, punctuation??

[Roger]

Leeroy,
you always come up with an excellent new thread

I am most displeased with the poor INTONATION in China. Pronunciation? It's horrible, to be sure, but what can you do when there is a sea of droplets that you must pick up singly?

I ask students to dictate a short sentence to someone else, for instance:
Take bus no. 234 (2-thirty-four") for four stops..."
Well, it takes up to 6 attempts before anyone catches on...

But, as for the reasons forthese problems?

I think they got very bad advice from American teachers two decades ago!
If you live on a CHinese school campus, you will notice students obediently READING ALOUD every morning before class, during lunchtime and in the evening:

" The te...tea...teacher went up...went up went up to the student and said..."


Well, this unnatural way is so terribly counterproductive.
They never hear themselves.
And they reinforce their bad pronunciation!

[arioch36]

At most of my schools, pronunciation wasn't a problem, aside from a few hot spots, such as smell/smile. Most of the Chinese college teachers spend a lot of time on pronuciation.

For me the biggest problem is that they have never be trained to speak in complete sentences. "How many people in your family?" "Four"

When we listen to someone, we never listen to everything the person says. Rather we pick up clues based on the surrounding context. (The same is true when we read, we don't "read" everything, but our mind makes guesses based on what our mind expects to be there). The Chinese student's inability to provide the complete, appropriate context is a bigger problem. IMHO

So Roger was talking about how they can't put together a full complete sentence in writing (and in my oral english classes they have writing homework almost every week). I think the key problem is that they never practice speaking in complete sentences. Oh they may read a dialogue, but they don't speak it. So making a complete full sentence isn't their habit. And this effects everything else, from learning vocabulary to reading comprehension. Their minds are trained for only comprehending a few words at a time.

On the other hand, maybe I have been around my Chinese students too long and it is just too easy for me to understand their bad pronunciation. But I don't see it effecting their grammar, sentence structure, etc.

[Snoopy]

I had the misfortune to attend a Berlitz training session once. One of the trainees was a native French speaker, so that was the language of his presentation. Although I am professionally fluent in French (which nobody knew), I deliberately mispronounced words we were were required to repeat and no correction was attempted. At the end of the session I asked about phonological correction. They don't do that, apparently. Anyhow, I was unwilling to undergo the lobotomy required to work there.

[woza17]

Good one, Leeroy I try to have the class understand how important pronunciation is and as Roger says at the morning reading class just ingrains the bad pronunciation. I played a bit of my Fair Lady to get my point across.
School performance last week they did a bit of Shakespeare, why do they bother. They murder the language. Even Jack and the Beanstalk, you can't do that unless you include fi fi fo fum etc.
We have a lot of work ahead of us. Complete sentences today,s class played a game where you must answer in a complete sentence as one poster pointed out the context is important.
I am bugggered today 7 classes and me with a bad cold. But this thread really touched a nerve.
Cheers and tears and pulling out of hair

[denise]

I don't focus on pronunciation nearly as much as I should. Why not?

1) How to fit it in, with so many other projects/issues/problem areas? Simply getting the students to speak is a monumental enough task sometimes--I'd rather give them activities that will get them to say anything at all than give them pronunciation exercises.

2) My own experiences as a student of Spanish. Oooooh, how I hated having to go to the listening lab and repeat words into a microphone! Those memories have tainted my opinion of teaching pronunciation.

I have a class in a listening lab now, and I have integrated some minimal pairs work. First the students must listen and discern the difference, and then they must produce the sounds--they get into pairs and give each other little quizzes (one says a word, the other indicates which word/sound it was). They usually do just fine on the listening part (except for the dreaded r/l distinction.) While they are deliberately focusing on pronunciation, they do OK, but after that, they go back to their normal mistakes.

I don't remember whether Leeroy mentioned this in his initial post, but do we need to explain to students what plosives/fricatives/etc. are? I don't think so. Yeah, they should know how to make the sound, what to do with their mouths/teeth/tongues, where the sound comes from, etc., but sans the terminology, in my humble opinion.

d

[struelle]

A great thread, as always.

Your stuff is always reassuring to read, because it's substantial and comes from someone who knows his stuff. There is, after all, solid *education* behind teaching English! Whether it's phonology, lexis, grammar, culture, critical thinking, language theory, child development, Business English, test prep, administration, teacher training, or what not, there is much to learn. A lot goes on 'behind the curtain' in this job, and it really is professional - that's how I felt after I did the CELTA, and will eventually do a Linguistics Masters.

In other words, teaching is not just walking into an 'oral' class and talking, while magically getting the students to follow suit when you only see them every 2 weeks. Pure silliness. This is a demanding profession where you must know your stuff, especially an in-depth study of the language we take for granted.

Onto the topic, however ....

[Roger]

Thanks for not hanging me for that "anti-American" remark of mine... I should have elaborated on it:
In my first job ten yhears ago, I noticed these reading-aloud practices of my students, and I told them what I thought about it, to, - obviously - no avail.
Then I asked one of the senior teachers at that school, and he answered it was an "American" idea. I asked my American colleagues at that time, and they didn't know about such habits in the USA.
But the point made by arioch36 about Li Yang no doubt is right! So, it may be a Chinese "cultural" thing, after all!

[FGT]

Don't we teach pronunciation all the time?
We model the language, even if only to say (approximation of phonemes, @=schwa) /op@n y@ buks @t peidj ten/
When we present new lexis we drill it.
When we present new grammar we drill it.
We mark stress on the board. (syllable and word stress, where necessary)
We do songs.
We do tongue twisters.
we correct (maybe not instantaneously, but at some point)
We identify difficult areas and concentrate on them.
Don't we?

I teach in Turkey where pronunciation is not a huge problem. At present I have an intermediate class of 10 students including one Japanese. She has particular pronunciation problems. Any suggestions how best to help her (without singling her out publicly)? Any ideas gratefully received.