Job Discussion Forums

h-train · Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:39 pm Post subject:

How many 60+ degree days are there each year in Saudi? How many dark, freezing ones in Korea?

How many people feel really let down that they can't wear daisy dukes and halter tops out in town?

desultude · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 614

desultude · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 614

By the way, I did talk about politics and American aggressive militarism with Saudis. I tend to agree with them.

I never had any problem with talking with anyone about anything in Korea. I am not a Christian, but you know that talking about religion is really a no-no in the Kingdom, as are other topics. It is strange for h-train to suggest that Saudi Arabia has more freedom of speech than Korea!

I think he has newbie-itus. The gleam will wear off, and if he is lucky, he will come to a pragmatic peace with the place, as you have. But idealizing Saudi Arabia was something even my Saudi students were unable to do!

Cleopatra · Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:34 pm Post subject:

kazazt · Joined: 15 Feb 2010 Posts: 164

[quote="desultude"]By the way, I did talk about politics and American aggressive militarism with Saudis. I tend to agree with them.

I never had any problem with talking with anyone about anything in Korea. I am not a Christian, but you know that talking about religion is really a no-no in the Kingdom, as are other topics. It is strange for h-train to suggest that Saudi Arabia has more freedom of speech than Korea!

I think he has newbie-itus. The gleam will wear off,![/quotexactly what I wrote yesterday

[/code]

h-train · Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:20 pm Post subject:

I'm not discounting anyone's opinion or belief. What I have made are statements based on my own feelings thus far. I am on my 4th month here. Do I have newbie-itis? Perhaps. But did you really feel as happy as I do at your4 month mark? Probably not. I have lived overseas since 1999 so I am very familiar with culture shock.

The difference I feel in freedom of speech is this: In Korea I was constantly prodded about religion. In Korea I got sick of "Yankee go home," and "Why does America always want to be everyone's boss?" and "Why won't the U.S. just allow the North and South to unite?" ad nauseum. I was there during MAD COW and a teacher I knew, who was a New Zealander, actually had an angry mob picketing outside his home with anti-America propaganda. Imagine that here... I don't think so. It's too sedate.

I have also never once felt unwelcome in this country. In Korea that was an everyday occurence.

Sure, talk about aggressive militarism with Saudis. I was in the military for 6 years. I'll talk about it with you if you want. I have a few Saudi friends who are in the service here and love to talk to me about it. The difference is they don't take stabs or discuss political angles.

I have yet to see anyone boil over like a kimchi pot here when he doesn't agree with your opinion. I have also yet to see anyone vomiting on the street when I go to work.

teflerlifer · Joined: 16 Mar 2010 Posts: 27

Having lived in Korea for than six years I really don't know where you are coming from. I have of course encountered racism, usually passive, and very rarely agressive. Overall, the people in the Seoul Subway catchment area are pretty used to foreigners and also realize that not every 'white' person is from the usa. Yes, Koreans have their periods of anti 'anything' mania, specifically about the us army when the two middle school girls got run over by an army vehicle and with us beef. But in all honesty I have never ever felt that i had to be careful what i was going to say about korea or koreans with anyone, are you telling me that tomorrow you will walk into your class and tell the students, islam is a failed religion and eveybody should convert to RC ? You also do go on about alcohol. Korea frequently seems to be stuck in a middle ages attitude as Saudi is in regards to many things, but at least they do allow their hard working people to let off steam by imbibing copious amounts of soju (yuck).
I think your experience of Korea was a really bad one, I have lived and worked in 3 different places around and in Seoul and overall apart from my first year as a 'white' slave working 32 hours a week teaching, after that I got myself uni hours, usually 12 and usually 8 -12 weeks vacation a year, Korea also has 4 seasons, the spring and autumn being the best, and yes the rainy season in July/August really sucks, and yes the freezing cold of December/Janauary is not pleasant, but after 1 year in Saudi, you will long for a different clime. Unless you are a fool, you should always be on alert as to what you say to people in Saudi. I never had a problem goading Koreans on Takeshima (Dokdo Islands), and I also had no problems with my Chinese students about politics. Hey, tell all your students that women should be allowed to drive, choose their husbands, and file for divorce if unhappy and see how long you last?

h-train · Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:33 am Post subject:

I'll reiterate that I respect everyone's opinion on this board. I think you've misconstrued somehow that I actively talk about political issues and religion in my classroom. I never do. I do not care enough about either topic to actively pursue it. I also feel neither topic has a place in the classroom, just as I would not bring either of these topics up in my high school classroom in Florida. I don't teach conversation classes or popular culture. What I was saying is that I was prodded a lot in Korea. They would bring up these topics, not me. In my time here this has not happened. That is all. I respect the fact that you don't like it here. This place is not for everyone, that's for sure.

kazazt · Joined: 15 Feb 2010 Posts: 164

None of your awesome students or colleagues have brought up Islam then? No crappy pamphlets by Yusuf Smith or tapes from the Dawa by Abdulllah Campbell or books with titles like `how Jesus is a very important man but he is not the son of God.`

h-train · Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:19 am Post subject:

johnslat · Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:14 pm Post subject:

Why is it, I wonder, that there are those who seemingly cannot comprehend how anyone could find Saudi tolerable?

Sure - I know very well that it's not to everyone's taste. I, who found it tolerable, certainly don't expect that everybody should have to share my opinion.

So, why do those who dislike it so much sometimes seem to feel the need to deride and even insult those who don't share their antipathy?

It's beyond my ken (or, for that matter, my barbie.)

Regards,
John

kazazt · Joined: 15 Feb 2010 Posts: 164

tolerable and awesome are very far apart.

johnslat · Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:49 pm Post subject:

Dear kazazt,

They are - but they are both subjective opinions, dependent upon the individual. For example, having been to, say, Jacksonville, FL and Tulsa, OK, I would NEVER want to live/work in either place. However, if someone were to tell me that he/she thought either or both places was "awesome," well, while I'd find such an opinion puzzling, I certainly wouldn't feel any need to insult/deride the individual expressing such an opinion.

Regards,
John

P.S. By the way, I probably missed it in scanning over the posts here, but who described Saudi as "awesome?"

kazazt · Joined: 15 Feb 2010 Posts: 164

A class or Aramco trainees is not awesome. Twisted Evil