Job Discussion Forums

[themanymoonsofjupiter]

In a recent (of many) "should I come to China and teach?" post, somebody mentioned a negative thing about being here is you will "always be a laowai". not just indicating, of course, "not a legal citizen", but a true outsider. at the time, i didn't think much of it, but the more i think of it, the more i think the poster was wrong. the contrast in how much special (positive or negative) treatment i get now vs five years ago is major. of course, living in a major city now (as opposed to in a small town in gansu) is a big reason, but a few examples:

--My students have very little interest in spending time with me outside of class. At my first school, i was invited out at least weekly. Regardless of whether you think this is good or bad, this is obviously special treatment that chinese teachers do not get.

--Nobody stares at me on the street. Nobody says, "hello!" Interest by locals in the white man is minimal at best. i am asked a lot fewer questions like where i'm from and if i can use chopsticks.

--Schools are greatly increasing standards for hiring. I'm sure you can point to plenty of schools that haven't, but overall, a white face won't do it for you anymore.

--My first school had a lot of things to welcome me to the school (dinners, events---i don't think i paid for a meal for my first week or so) and gave me a lot of guidance--a chinese teacher assigned to me only to answer any questions i had. i didn't have to attend meetings. my current school has provided none of those things. i report to the same bosses that the chinese do.


maybe not all apply to you; regardless, a lot more apply to foreign teachers (and foreigners as a whole) than they did even five years ago. yes, i have been to places in china very recently where i got "hello'd" ad nauseam and know other teachers in the city that spend a lot of time with their students. there's already a Green Card available for foreigners to stay more permanently in china (though i realise it is quite difficult to get).

am i missing something? it truly does seem to me that i am much less a laowai now than i was five years ago.

[therock]

From the differences you have mentioned, it seems you are being treated less like a laowai.

Like you said there is a big difference between places in China. Of course in a small town somewhere in Gansu you are going to be treatly differently to say Beijing.

[Halapo]

Do your neighbors call you by your name, or by your country or Laowai?

What city are you in? If it is either Shanghai or Beijing, that really is a different world from tier 2 cities. Tier 2 cities are like Beijing or Shanghai while you are near the schools and city centers, but I find I can walk into "rural China" pretty fast. If you are in rural China, then it could feel like the 1950's...

Also, have you looked into becoming a Chinese citizen? The rules for this are different depending on the Chinese person telling you, but it boils down to you have to give up your original nationality. Some places even make it sound like you have to do that first ( ie. have no nationality ) before you can even apply. I doubt that is true.

Or buying property or owning a business? There is a huge ( and I mean HUGE ) double standard for foreigners and locals. More so on the smaller, local scale. An international company has fewer problems... or the money and people to get it done.

Or another example, something I have noticed and keep track of for my own amusement. I wear a bracelet of black beads. Something I bought in China at a Buddhist temple. Something I have a seen being sold in many different places here in China. Every time a Chinese person sees it and asks me about it, they think I am Catholic. Laowai + beads = Catholic. Never once has somebody thought it meant Buddhist. The closest was something like "You are Laowai, why do you wear that?" Meaning a Laowai couldn't be Buddhist.

My point is, rather then make the closer connection, they always jump to the foreign one. How many Chinese people have seen or know much about the Catholic Church ( and yes I know that there is a Catholic Church in most modern/major cities here ), to know about prayer beads? vrs. How many Chinese people have seen local knickknack jewelry sold in every Chinese tourist shop?

If you are born in China, you are Chinese. If you are not, you are Laowai. Ask your students. Then try questions like, "What if you are born here, but don't speak Chinese, only English/French?" ( try Japanese if you want to get a weird reaction ). Or, "What if I only spoke Chinese, was born here in China but still looked White? Would I be a Laowai?"

[XiGua]

Did you ever think that maybe you're the one that's changed, not necessarily the Chinese? This isn't meant to be a personal attack or anything. I've noticed that after i've been here for awhile I have a different attitude towards things. When I first arrived I would openly accept any invitation thrown my way but now I turn down a lot of people and students that invite me to do something. Kind of like a "been there done that" attitude. I don't always do that, I'm just more reluctant to accept invitations from people that I can already gauge that i'm not interested in or they have secret intentions i'm not interested in. Too many times i've been forced to go to dinners with random people I don't know fully knowing they're going to expect me to teach for them and they haven't let me down yet.

This has to be a locational difference. Where I'm at I still get noticed a lot and people are still happy and excited to see me. I can't really believe that you are being integrated into society as a commoner, you're probably just noticing stuff less since you've been here for so long.

As far as your schools go, the school probably realizes that you don't need babysat since you've been around the block and you know what to expect more or less.

[Sinobear]

"My students have very little interest in spending time with me outside of class"

Do you know why? After I made it clear to my students that bribes and other Chinese nicities won't, don't' and couldn't work in my classes, interest in me dropped off, too.

4 and a half years in Beijing (starting in 1998), I never had the staring problem either...hardly an indicator of anything.

Schools are not increasing any standards other than getting the most for the least. A white face can do you no more good than it could 12 years ago.

I don't have to attend any meetings, nor do I attend any events scheduled by my school. They have no loyalty to me, I have no loyalty to them. As Garfield would say, "Big fat hairy deal."

There's no "Green Card"...it's called a Permanent Residence Permit and you aren't getting that unless you're a MAJOR mover and shaker (EFL teachers need not apply).

What are you missing? Reality. You will ALWAYS be a foreigner, your stay in China will ALWAYS be at the whim of the gov't, you might get the smiles and kind words that stoke your ego - but you will NEVER get the respect that you maybe earn, garner, or think that you merit.

There really is no such thing as an "Old China Hand", but there is such a thing as little foreign puppies.

Ah! Thank you Ttorriel! I had a spelling mistake and your valued contribution to the thread below clearly showed me that I should be more careful in the future!

[ttorriel]

[johntpartee]

[kukiv]

Live in China and have set some deep roots. My experience tells me that you'll especially feel laowai when -
there's a dispute with a local - the general rule of thumb is that I must be deemed wrong because I'm foreign

successfully competing against local competition - you're plundering from the Chinese economy

7 years here now - I get to feel more proudly laowai by the month.

By the way now i fully understand some of those deeper feeling that immigrants in any country must feel - integration into a society isn't just about you accepting different norms, but also how the natives accept yours.

[dharma86]

I'm more of a waiguoren than a laowai

Yeah,where are you?that's the important factor.

[kukiv]

[Lobster]

Yeah, I think it's true, but so what. It's no different than when I lived in Germany. I speak fluent German and look like any other German might, but I could never be German or accepted as German. I'm not part of the big family/tribe. I didn't grow up with German or Chinese values and culture. Why would I want to try to be something I'm not? Choosing the expat life means choosing the outsider's life. No, you're never going to be Chinese even if you're Da Shan. Take a look in the mirror. Either you can deal with it or you can't. Seems like a silly thing to gripe about. This is not the land of multi-cuturalism.

RED

[kukiv]

[Zero]

[quote="kukiv"]

[themanymoonsofjupiter]

for the record, i wasn't trying to point out that a chinese permanent residence card was called a 'green card', nor was i saying that i'm a prime candidate for one.

i suppose that i wasn't thinking that the very fact that i'm a laowai means i can get a job here in the first place. i have teaching credentials, but i probably wouldn't find myself teaching at a university in my home country.

and i'm probably much more serious of a teacher than i was my first year in china, and therefore probably a lot less fun-seeming. it doesn't bother me. but it has always been clear from day one that taking me out to eat did not equal a higher grade. i don't see how Sinobear's reasoning works--it's not as if my reputation of being unbribeable has followed me from gansu to here.