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Asda
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 231
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 Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| robitusson wrote: |
| How bad can it be? You do your time. You get paid. Presumably everyone who's there has a goal in mind for the money they're getting. Achieving whatever that goal may be should be worth a few very uncomfortable months. What other country can provide such a large amount of cash so quickly in this profession? |
Libya? |
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Mia Xanthi
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 955
Location: why is my heart still in the Middle East while the rest of me isn't?
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| Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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I'm looking into a job offer from Bell. I'm an experienced manager and I actually quite fancy the challenge of trying to improve thing
Sorry mate you've come to the wrong country! Those who go in full of enthusiasm, hoping to 'improve things' quickly learn that there are severe limitations on what they can do, and either quit, or end up defending the indefensible to teachers. However competent and well-meaning you are, chances are you'll find your hands are tied by senior management who haven't got a clue. |
I couldn't agree more. Western managers are hired strictly as window-dressing, and I mean that literally; managers are hired because they look the part, not because they have real managerial qualifications. All important decisions will be made by someone in a thobe who knows nothing whatsoever about running an educational institution, and your job as manager will be simply to defend the thobe's decisions in public.
There is no "improving things" in KSA. Most institutions/universities have reached their pinnacle the day they open...everything will go downhill from that point.
If you're going to go and plan to live through it, you must at least start with attitude of utter cynicism. Pollyanna types rarely make it more than a few months in the Kingdom. |
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desert_traveller
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Mia Xanthi wrote: |
| There is no "improving things" in KSA. Most institutions/universities have reached their pinnacle the day they open...everything will go downhill from that point. |
couldn't agree more
wish people understood this in the ksa
but some dont, even after years and years of banging their heads against the wall
whats wrong with this kind of people?
the other thing i could never understand was why people cared so much about the 'academic improvement' of students who couldn't bother less themselves. who cares? after a while i just couldnt give a damn anymore if muhammad al qahtani failed or passed. he would pass anyway (especialy with a family name like that). and he didnt give a damn either. and it was all right like that |
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| desert_traveller wrote: |
| [and it was all right like that |
 
Do you have to be so blunt about it |
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Bubble81
Joined: 03 Dec 2009
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:33 am Post subject: |
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Please - can anyone give me useful information about the accommodation deal for females here?
Thanks. |
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Citizenkane
Joined: 14 Jun 2009
Posts: 234
Location: Xanadu
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| Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:35 am Post subject: |
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If you're going to go and plan to live through it, you must at least start with attitude of utter cynicism. Pollyanna types rarely make it more than a few months in the Kingdom. |
True.
I mean, if you want to go into management in KSA for the money or to put the experience on your CV, go for it. But have no illusions that you or your qualifications are going to be put to good use. KSA is a country where it pays (literally!) to be cynical! |
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Bubble81
Joined: 03 Dec 2009
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:53 am Post subject: |
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Dear All - I really, really appreciate all of the advice and warnings you have all given me but I also really would like to know about the accommodation. Do I assume you are all guys and not too sure about the female side of things?
Thanks |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Dunno about accommodation but I have heard that 9 teachers are still in "suspended animation" for attempting to take collective action. |
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spotz
Joined: 11 Jul 2009
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| the woman are put in shared accommodation in Khozama. Its not too far from the males campus but from what i have heard that area is still being built and there isnt much food or anything in that particular area. |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| the other thing i could never understand was why people cared so much about the 'academic improvement' of students who couldn't bother less themselves. who cares? |
Absolutely.
As I've said before, for most Saudi students (not all but the majority, probably the vast majority) a 'good teacher' is one who is 'kind' and 'helps them' by making the exam as easy as possible. Very few of them have any real desire to learn for the sake of learning, and nothing we can do is likely to change this. And as you say - it's OK that way. At the end of the day, we are being paid to do a job, and if the way our employers want us to do that job (no matter what they might say about 'educational standards') isn't quite the way we think we should be doing it well.... what's that saying about how the one who pays the piper calls the tune?
after a while i just couldnt give a damn anymore if muhammad al qahtani failed or passed. he would pass anyway (especialy with a family name like that). and he didnt give a damn either
Al Qahtani? Hmm.... pretty low-class compared to some of the families I deal with....! |
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Kalima Shahada
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Posts: 198
Location: I live in a house, but my home is in the stable.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| Cleopatra wrote: |
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| the other thing i could never understand was why people cared so much about the 'academic improvement' of students who couldn't bother less themselves. who cares? |
Absolutely.
As I've said before, for most Saudi students (not all but the majority, probably the vast majority) a 'good teacher' is one who is 'kind' and 'helps them' by making the exam as easy as possible. Very few of them have any real desire to learn for the sake of learning |
The same can be said of students from all over the world, not just Saudi students.
I think the difference is that we come from a Western educational perspective where educators are generally supported and considered professionals who deserve respect from their pupils. This is not the case when we travel to foreign countries and teach students who pretty much call all of the shots. The admin. will bow to their every whim because they are customers first and foremost and to them education is about selling a piece of paper. We are just the agents involved in the process of making sure that the customer gets what he/she has paid for as we strive to please them in the process. |
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jerboa
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:56 am Post subject: |
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Dear Bubble81,
I have female friends who live in the Bell accommodation. Awhile back there was a fire and the women demanded to be put in a hotel while it was being cleaned up. However, it was never cleaned up properly and they were forced to move back in. They were not happy with how the situation was handled. |
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Sheikh N Bake
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 1307
Location: Dis ting of ours
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Kalima Shahada wrote: |
The same can be said of students from all over the world, not just Saudi students.
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I would qualify that with "the same can be said of some students from all over the world--or haven't you heard of Chinese students or Western students in competitive institutions? |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Do not come here as a missionary intent on teaching the natives how to view the world. Too many from the West come here with the mindset and ideology appropriate for living as a settler in Indian Territory or as a pioneer in 1930's Rhodesia. |
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Asda
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 231
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| jerboa wrote: |
Dear Bubble81,
I have female friends who live in the Bell accommodation. Awhile back there was a fire and the women demanded to be put in a hotel while it was being cleaned up. However, it was never cleaned up properly and they were forced to move back in. They were not happy with how the situation was handled. |
But, ahem, can it really be that bad?! Surely not! So long as you get your money each month, transfer it back home, keep your head down, do your time, go in with your eyes and mind open....!!! 
Sorry, people...  |
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