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laconic
Joined: 23 May 2005
Posts: 198
Location: "When the Lord made me he made a ramblin man."
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 Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:45 am Post subject: |
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| tttompatz wrote: |
| Dedicated wrote: |
In answer to Kiels,
Congratulations on securing a post in the Philippines at an international school. Presumably you start in September 2010.....
However, I'm curious how you say you " graduated in June 2010" with a First Class degree - final exams haven't yet started ! I'm not sure too what you mean by " any old minted BA degree".
Would you like to elucidate and answer Glenski's questions too, as he was kind enough to give you lots of information/advice? |
School year in the Phils starts at the end of May.
They just started their break this week.
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Not necessarily for international schools possibly like the one Kiels wrote about. |
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funkyj
Joined: 26 Oct 2004
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| tttompatz wrote: |
| funkyj wrote: |
Hey all,
I am new here and am browsing all the forums for some info that will help me in making an informed decision on moving abroad.
Apologies in advance for piggybacking on this post, but I too am seeking some advice on where to look for a teaching position that would have the highest pay and greatest benefits.
As for my particular qualifications, experience, and situation:
Qualifications: I am a New York State certified secondary English teacher (grades 7-12). This certification is in English language arts and literature-- not ESL. I have a B.A. in English Education (secondary 7-12) and a M.S. in Literacy education (grades 5-12).
[edited for brevity]
Oh, more more thing, I am 31 so there are several countries that I cannot get work permits/visas in anymore.
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Your age just means you have to get a real "work" visa and not a "working holiday" visa.
I am 52 and have had NO problem finding suitable, well paid, employment overseas.
With your qualifications and experience you should be looking for "International School" job fairs. These schools pay well (often better than your home country) and include the usual benefits.
You could also teach IN YOUR FIELD at many universities abroad. Again, even in places like China you can get a salary in the $1500+range with all the expected benefits (16-20 classes per week).
In Korea (at a uni) you can get about $2000 per month but they usually don't hire from abroad. The usual class load is 12-16 classes per week.
A public school job in Korea (with your quals and experience) will get you about $2200-$2600 (after tax) with the usual included benefits (pension, medical, severance, housing and airfare).
You can also do well in Japan but the setup cost is more and they don't pay the airfare or housing.
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THANKS SO MUCH tttompatz!!!!!!
In reference to public and private schools, I assume you mean language schools.Do you know of a good resource for employment? I am registered with Footprints and they are eager to find me a position, but the pay rate seems less than what you estimated.
AS for International schools, I am registered with one company but am finding that every single other company requires a HUGE fee and they do NOT post jobs publicly, rather only members have access. An international school would be IDEAL for me, especially since they have pretty long holidays/vacations, and since I would be SO FAR from home, friends, and other countries I enjoy traveling to, it kills me to think of only 10 days off at a language school.
I have been spending hours upon hours researching options and possibilities. Here I go....
THANKS again! |
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tttompatz
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:15 am Post subject: |
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| funkyj wrote: |
THANKS SO MUCH tttompatz!!!!!!
In reference to public and private schools, I assume you mean language schools.Do you know of a good resource for employment? I am registered with Footprints and they are eager to find me a position, but the pay rate seems less than what you estimated.
AS for International schools, I am registered with one company but am finding that every single other company requires a HUGE fee and they do NOT post jobs publicly, rather only members have access. An international school would be IDEAL for me, especially since they have pretty long holidays/vacations, and since I would be SO FAR from home, friends, and other countries I enjoy traveling to, it kills me to think of only 10 days off at a language school.
I have been spending hours upon hours researching options and possibilities. Here I go....
THANKS again! |
OK...
FIRST - YOU NEVER pay for a recruiter- NEVER. If they want money, you walk away.
There are job fairs where international schools often go to find teachers. They are often in your home country at some university campus or major convention center.
Some international schools advertise on Dave's and other sites - sometimes through a recruiter.
There are government programs in Taiwan, Hong Kong and others for teachers who are licensed in their home countries. These can often match the packages offered by International schools.
The package for the public school system in Korea is a bit misleading in the offer and most people only look at the base pay and forget the added extras that can significantly add to your pay.
As an example, in Korea I was working in a public school (elementary), 22 classes of 40 minutes per week for a base salary of 2.4 million won. Then I got the afternoon classes; 6 per week @ 120,000 per week. This is all within my 8:30-4:30 workday. Monthly I was grossing about 3 million won for my 40 hour week. ADD to that the free airfare, rent free housing, medical, pension, 6 weeks paid vacation and end of contract bonus (1 month's pay). The whole remuneration package had an ANNUAL value of over US$50,000.
A similar deal is available in Taiwan (up to 60-90000NT + benefits).
A similar deal is available in Hong Kong.
A little smaller remuneration package and much lower cost of living can be done in Thailand (~50-60,000thb) for qualified teachers.
By private schools I meant mainstream but not government run (like most REAL international schools) - NOT a language institute or academy with the "international" tag in the name.
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funkyj
Joined: 26 Oct 2004
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 5:49 am Post subject: |
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Thanks again tttompatz 
No, I wouldn't pay a recruiter. For jobs with international schools throughout the world, pretty much every website I came across requires a membership, application, etc that has fees. International schools job fairs require invites that of course, you get if you pay these companies. These jobs are kept under total lock-and-key and it is stressing me out. One company advertised on Craigslist, required a resume and then invited people to interviews based on whether or not they would be good candidates (this was all free). This recruitment company did not charge, but they are VERY small and have very few schools that they deal with. Plus, apparently English Language Arts and Literature is NOT in demand. So, I have a shot in hell really (to be fair, I told them I was ONLY interested in teaching In Europe, and they were honest in telling me it wasn't realistic and that the jobs were in the Middle East and Asia). KNowing I was limited with this company, I have looked for others and every time I search "international school jobs" I come up with sites that require a membership, fees, and nonsense. AM I missing something? I can't find ANYTHING that would allow me to have access to international school job postings/details without having to pay.
With that said, I realized a job in an international school is OUT unless I pay out. Too broke to do that now.
So, now I am looking at teaching English in general, but am not sure how I would work out as a language teacher. I am trained to teach literature and language arts, and of course to teach to the New York state exams. I honestly don't "know how" to teach someone how to speak a language. This is where my next question comes in: should I get a TEFL? I think I should. I mean, it could only improve my teaching skills right? I see that many schools only require a Bachelors or experience in education, but I don't see how that would help in creating lessons for language.
So let me get this right: public schools vs private schools in Korea= BOTH are language schools, except for the obvious public and private. OR, are you talking about public schools and private schools as in the students learn all subjects (math, history, literature, etc)? I think this added a whole new dimension to my interest in teaching in Korea.
And so another question: I see that some postings state that lessons/texts are provided. So, from what I am gathering, you really don't have to create lesson plans because they are provided? Am I missing something? I always see lesson plans and teaching ideas posted, so I assume that teachers ARE actually responsible for their own planning so long as they follow a curriculum map? It would be too good to be true if a book of lessons was provided and all you had to do was apply them.
This whole situation is new to me and so I have been reading through postings and seeking info. The more I read, the more questions I have though. Sorry for being a newb.
Ok, one last thing for now: VACATION/HOLIDAY PAY: Whoa..... it seems that ALL the schools only give 2 weeks!! What the hell?? That doesn't seem right. What about teacher burn out? Two weeks a year is not healthy. I know that in the U.S. every job EXCEPT teaching gets the horrible 2 week foolishness, and hence the high rate of stress, depression, health issues (yeah sedentary lifestyles and fast food helps). But come on, teaching is probably one of the most difficult jobs. To always be "on", lesson planning, grading, etc. is taxing to say the least. AM I missing something again? Are there schools that offer more? What about national holidays, are they paid or just days off? Plus, from what I have seen, these magical 2 weeks are split over the seasons. So, clearly I would NOT be able to go home every few months for a visit. Hmmm, this is something to think about for sure. It is not about homesick-- I don't think I have ever experienced that, even when I was away for 6 months. It is about my family freaking out about me being thousands of miles away and not seeing me for a year. It would probably end badly. This is a concern.
OK OK, I went on too many tangents. I just have been reading too many pages tonight, and am losing focus on my thoughts.
THANKS SO MUCH for the time and responses.  |
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tttompatz
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| funkyj wrote: |
Thanks again tttompatz
No, I wouldn't pay a recruiter. For jobs with international schools throughout the world, pretty much every website I came across requires a membership, application, etc that has fees. International schools job fairs require invites that of course, you get if you pay these companies. These jobs are kept under total lock-and-key and it is stressing me out. One company advertised on Craigslist, required a resume and then invited people to interviews based on whether or not they would be good candidates (this was all free). This recruitment company did not charge, but they are VERY small and have very few schools that they deal with. Plus, apparently English Language Arts and Literature is NOT in demand. So, I have a shot in hell really (to be fair, I told them I was ONLY interested in teaching In Europe, and they were honest in telling me it wasn't realistic and that the jobs were in the Middle East and Asia). KNowing I was limited with this company, I have looked for others and every time I search "international school jobs" I come up with sites that require a membership, fees, and nonsense. AM I missing something? I can't find ANYTHING that would allow me to have access to international school job postings/details without having to pay.
With that said, I realized a job in an international school is OUT unless I pay out. Too broke to do that now.
So, now I am looking at teaching English in general, but am not sure how I would work out as a language teacher. I am trained to teach literature and language arts, and of course to teach to the New York state exams. I honestly don't "know how" to teach someone how to speak a language. This is where my next question comes in: should I get a TEFL? I think I should. I mean, it could only improve my teaching skills right? I see that many schools only require a Bachelors or experience in education, but I don't see how that would help in creating lessons for language.
So let me get this right: public schools vs private schools in Korea= BOTH are language schools, except for the obvious public and private. OR, are you talking about public schools and private schools as in the students learn all subjects (math, history, literature, etc)? I think this added a whole new dimension to my interest in teaching in Korea.
And so another question: I see that some postings state that lessons/texts are provided. So, from what I am gathering, you really don't have to create lesson plans because they are provided? Am I missing something? I always see lesson plans and teaching ideas posted, so I assume that teachers ARE actually responsible for their own planning so long as they follow a curriculum map? It would be too good to be true if a book of lessons was provided and all you had to do was apply them.
This whole situation is new to me and so I have been reading through postings and seeking info. The more I read, the more questions I have though. Sorry for being a newb.
Ok, one last thing for now: VACATION/HOLIDAY PAY: Whoa..... it seems that ALL the schools only give 2 weeks!! What the hell?? That doesn't seem right. What about teacher burn out? Two weeks a year is not healthy. I know that in the U.S. every job EXCEPT teaching gets the horrible 2 week foolishness, and hence the high rate of stress, depression, health issues (yeah sedentary lifestyles and fast food helps). But come on, teaching is probably one of the most difficult jobs. To always be "on", lesson planning, grading, etc. is taxing to say the least. AM I missing something again? Are there schools that offer more? What about national holidays, are they paid or just days off? Plus, from what I have seen, these magical 2 weeks are split over the seasons. So, clearly I would NOT be able to go home every few months for a visit. Hmmm, this is something to think about for sure. It is not about homesick-- I don't think I have ever experienced that, even when I was away for 6 months. It is about my family freaking out about me being thousands of miles away and not seeing me for a year. It would probably end badly. This is a concern.
OK OK, I went on too many tangents. I just have been reading too many pages tonight, and am losing focus on my thoughts.
THANKS SO MUCH for the time and responses. |
WOW... lots there... first some terminology so we are on the same page.
public school - daytime, regular classes, all subjects - may not necessarily be taught in English (other than English class).
Private school / international school - same as above BUT privately funded by tuition fees and MAY be taught completely in English.
Academy / language institute - AFTER school - focus on teaching ESL.
Now, as to job fairs for international schools .. they are often held on uni campuses. They are FREE for job seekers but may require pre-registration or a NOMINAL fee. The schools pay to be in them.
The same with many job sites that feature international schools.
Occasionally you will find them posting in places like this but not often.
RE: Korea:
Public school - 40 hour work week M-F 8:30-4:30.
You teach English. YOUR focus will be on Speaking and Listening. Their Korean teacher will focus on writing and grammar. (usually). You will probably only see each class once or twice per week. You will re-use your lesson plan for 4-8 classes. You will be scheduled for 22 classes per week (usually mornings). If you teach more than 22 classes per week you get extra pay.
They have books and there is a lesson guide (but it is still pretty bad). You will spend about 10 hours per week doing lesson planning. There is little or no marking and no exams to worry about.
You can expect 4-6 weeks of paid annual vacation (taken during the summer and winter break).
In a Private school / international school it will be much the same EXCEPT that the language of instruction is English and they hire for all subjects; not just conversational English. Again, annual vacations tend to be longer; 4-8 weeks per year. This is JUST like a PRIVATE school in your home country.
In an Academy / language institute you will teach English to anyone who wants to pay for it - babies to adults. These are after school programs (unless kindergarten) and can run as early as 6am and as late as 10pm.
They typically offer 10 working days of annual vacation and lesson prep is often nothing more than making copies out of a book.
As a real teacher you will be VERY UNHAPPY working at one of these. They are NOT real schools. They are education for profit and the key word is PROFIT, not education.
The same comparisons will hold true for most other countries in Asia.
AS a qualified, licensed teacher you should be looking for an international school or university. Failing that, look for a public school (in the country of your choice) to spend a year in while you make contacts to move into an international school.
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funkyj
Joined: 26 Oct 2004
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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tttompatz-
I love you! I thank you tremendously for clarifying this all for me, it helped more than you know!
OK, so the research shall continue...
Have a great weekend. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| funkyj wrote: |
As for my particular qualifications, experience, and situation:
Qualifications: I am a New York State certified secondary English teacher (grades 7-12). This certification is in English language arts and literature-- not ESL. I have a B.A. in English Education (secondary 7-12) and a M.S. in Literacy education (grades 5-12).
Experience: I have a couple of years regular classroom teaching experience, as well as several years as a substitute/supply teacher, teacher assistant (working in an inclusion setting with a regular classroom teacher, assisting students with special needs), and a tutor. I have worked with students from ages 11-18 in urban, suburban, and rural areas ranging from Brooklyn, NY to Brookville, Long Island, NY. |
Ok, that makes you qualified for international schools and regular entry level work.
Situation: Stupidly I chose some pretty expensive colleges and universities for my degrees and I too have some pretty hefty student loans to be paying. I also have some other acquired debt/bills. [/quote]How much total per month? "Hefty" is too vague for us to offer advice on whether you should stay home a while to pay them off or come abroad.
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| SO, hence why I am on these forums now. If I were debt free, I would go anywhere and everywhere and teach around the world, even volunteering. But I am not. So I need a gig that pays well (minimal of 1500 USD a month PLUS FREE accommodation). |
Free accommodation is extremely rare.
| Quote: |
From what I am finding, like other posters have stated, the "best" options are Korea or in various places in the M.E..
With that said, I have absolutely NO interest in teaching in the M.E.
So, is Korea it? |
Before you leap to the Korean job boards, learn about the negatives of living/working there. Separate registration for the ESL Cafe Korea forum suggests a lot. Lots of xenophobia there, as well as unscrupulous managers (in the bigger cities, if I recall), and if you lose your job, you lose your visa (unlike many other countries).
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| Part of me thinks that there HAS to be more options being I do have two degrees, certification, classroom teaching experience, and am a native English speaker. |
Get over it. If you prefer to teach literature instead of the English language, sit back and realize that your students would have to comprehend a lot of English to understand what you are lecturing about (comparative lit? world lit? whatever). Either that, or you would have to be pretty fluent to teach in L2.
| Quote: |
| Oh, more more thing, I am 31 so there are several countries that I cannot get work permits/visas in anymore. |
That sounds like a very young age, too young for such things except the working holiday visa. Where have you heard you can't get a visa at 31? |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Quote:
SO, hence why I am on these forums now. If I were debt free, I would go anywhere and everywhere and teach around the world, even volunteering. But I am not. So I need a gig that pays well (minimal of 1500 USD a month PLUS FREE accommodation).
Free accommodation is extremely rare. |
It really depends on what country you are going to. In Korea and China accommodation is almost always included. |
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funkyj
Joined: 26 Oct 2004
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks guys for the tips/info.
As for "hefty" loans, I owe about 125,000 (federal and private), and my monthly payments come to just slightly under 600 a month (and right now one is graduated repayment and has been, so soon that will shoot up). PLus, I have other bills/debt, hence why I need a minimum of 1500 a month.
As for countries for visas, some countries that will not offer a visa (for over 30) are Australia, UK, amongst a few others. The rest just won't give working visas to Americans in general.
AS for countries with accommodations, yeah, from what I found, it seems that Korea is pretty much it, which is fine, I am open.
Thanks again. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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Just for the sake of clarity, are you saying that you need to send 1,500 USD on your debts monthly, and therefore need to earn that much PLUS living expenses as a teacher?
If this is the case - I doubt teaching (anywhere) is going to be feasible. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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US$600 a month is easy enough to pay off in Japan.
$1500 will be very difficult for a starting teacher. Heck, it's hard for a veteran!
I hope you aren't expecting free rent, free airfare, and free utilities while you teach abroad. |
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funkyj
Joined: 26 Oct 2004
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:11 am Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
Just for the sake of clarity, are you saying that you need to send 1,500 USD on your debts monthly, and therefore need to earn that much PLUS living expenses as a teacher?
If this is the case - I doubt teaching (anywhere) is going to be feasible. |
Yes, that is why I am asking around to see what the reality is. AS a public school teacher here in NY (with my qualifications and experience) I would be making at least 54,000 a year. I am NOT trying to match that, just trying to find a teaching job that offers a living wage with some funds for paying my loans. I don't live lavishly or spend money frivolously, I am just trying to live. |
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funkyj
Joined: 26 Oct 2004
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:12 am Post subject: |
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Yes, thanks for the links. This was suggested to me and I did look into it, but there are no postings for secondary ELA teachers.
Thanks though! |
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funkyj
Joined: 26 Oct 2004
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
US$600 a month is easy enough to pay off in Japan.
$1500 will be very difficult for a starting teacher. Heck, it's hard for a veteran!
I hope you aren't expecting free rent, free airfare, and free utilities while you teach abroad. |
But what are these postings that I see that offer free accommodations plus around 1500USD a month? Clearly I am misunderstanding something. I am not "expecting" anything, that is why I am looking into the details and complexities of teaching abroad.
As for a starting teacher, I do have a teaching certification and B.A. and a M.S. degrees. So, wouldn't that push me up in the pay scale and opportunities? Right now I am in the researching phase, so I am still trying to get a feel for the language and elements of teaching abroad. |
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