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Silent Shadow
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 380
Location: A stones throw past the back of beyond
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 Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:40 am Post subject: |
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Is it really stealing, though, chengdu, or is it just acquiring ideas from other teachers? As, you said, they adapted it to their students' needs, anyway. I don't mind teachers taking ideas from my class, and in turn, I would be happy to take ideas from other teachers, if I thought that they would work effectively with my students. It just seems odd in an eductional setting to be so insular when it comes to lesson plans. Sometimes it's better to see how an idea or activity is applied rather than just taking the idea on paper.
How did you know they were being used in other classes? Did you observe other teacher's classes? |
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gene
Joined: 03 Mar 2010
Posts: 187
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:01 am Post subject: |
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PattyFlipper wrote:
Lovely. Could you publish the name of this esteemed institution so that I never make the mistake of applying there? (Unlikely, in any event).
ttorriel wrote: You clearly don't belong in the profession if you're so scared of being observed. |
Observation of classroom activities is a documentation feature which can support a good teacher's record of classroom instruction. There is no need for student evaluation as performance is self evident.
Pattyflipper, why wouldn't you want to be judged on your merit instead of student whims. |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:33 am Post subject: |
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| Let 'em observe, any institution or government entity is perfectly within it's rights to monitor and evaluate any teacher at any time. At my alma mater in the United States, there were many non-tenured (adjunct) professors. They were constantly being monitored. |
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chengdu4me
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 120
Location: Chengdu, Sichuan, China
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:53 am Post subject: |
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| chengdu4me wrote: |
I have been "observed" in class four times this year. Later, I find my lesson plans being used in other classes, slightly altered to fit their course of instruction.
I did not receive any feedback from anyone other than the observers thought my lesson plan was good enough to bother stealing. They could have saved themselves 40 minutes of their time by just asking for it. |
Silver Shadow, apparently you didn't bother to read my entire post. I am more than willing to share my lesson plans, idea, methods with other teachers.
My students told me that they same idea were presented in other classes. I don't have time in the day, nor the desire to observe other teachers classes.
All the FT's and Chinese English speaking teachers get together every Thursday evening for dinner and an evening out to share ideas, plans, talk about our students performances, etc. Mostly they practice their English and help us with our Chinese.
Last edited by chengdu4me on Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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gene
Joined: 03 Mar 2010
Posts: 187
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:53 am Post subject: |
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| Is it really stealing, though, chengdu, or is it just acquiring ideas from other teachers? As, you said, they adapted it to their students' needs, anyway. |
Is it the methods or the instruments that they copy. Also remember that under certain circumstances any work product generated by an employee is the property of the employing entity. If you have special materials that you have created, make sure to guard as "loose lips sink ships" as far as copy written material is concerned.
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| I did not receive any feedback from anyone other than the observers thought my lesson plan was good enough to bother stealing. They could have saved themselves 40 minutes of their time by just asking for it. |
Perhaps theft wasn't in the forefront of their intentions but rather the incorporation of different styles due to a directive from their supervisor. Indeed, feedback may not have been an objective in their observation. Parley your abilities into a valued and continued employment making the most of their "goal" to "pick up tips" by trying to capitalize on the abilities they desire to mimic. |
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PattyFlipper
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 572
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| ttorriel wrote: |
| PattyFlipper wrote: |
| Lovely. Could you publish the name of this esteemed institution so that I never make the mistake of applying there? (Unlikely, in any event). |
You clearly don't belong in the profession if you're so scared of being observed. |
I have no problem whatever with being observed in an appropriate context. I would never for one moment consider working for an employer who felt it necessary for continual observation using Orwellian surveillance tactics. If you wish to trade resumes, feel free to send me a PM.
Last edited by PattyFlipper on Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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PattyFlipper
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 572
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| gene wrote: |
| Pattyflipper, why wouldn't you want to be judged on your merit instead of student whims. |
That all depends on who is doing the observation, does it not? Together with their reasons and motivation for implementing them in the first place.
I have no problems per se with classroom observation used as an instrument for quality control, though I question its value if there is only ever one observer and it is the sole method used to determine teacher/instructor performance. It is when observation becomes a means of intimidation (not at all unheard of) that I begin to take serious issue. And in my experience, managers, administrators and supervisors are just as capable of capricious whimsy and partiality as any student.
Last edited by PattyFlipper on Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Silent Shadow
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 380
Location: A stones throw past the back of beyond
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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Ok chengdu, I apologize for calling you insular when it comes to lesson plans.
I still don't think it could be called stealing in the context that you mentioned, though. If the "Stealer" claimed it was his idea or literally stole your lesson plan document then, yes, you could call it stealing.
As for just asking you for the plan, well, as I said before, they probably wanted to see the lesson in action. |
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Sinobear
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 1269
Location: Purgatory
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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To jump in the debate:
Ask yourself this: If you are being constantly monitored by CCTV...are you going to get a raise for outstanding performance? (Cue crickets chirping) or are you going to catch flak for anything that can be used against you? (cue 88mm barrage).
I would agree to cameras in my classroom if there were cameras also installed in every administration office. I would like to monitor the efficiency and 'due dilligence' of those above me to see that my school is being administered in the most effective manner. |
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ttorriel
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 193
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| You clearly have no grasp on the hierarchical system... |
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gene
Joined: 03 Mar 2010
Posts: 187
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| That all depends on who is doing the observation, does it not? Together with their reasons and motivation for implementing them in the first place. |
No, it really doesn't depend on who but on the procedure. If it is a standard to insure quality and children s safety as well as producing a record of classroom events and it is the policy of the company that employs the teacher, it is warranted and should be welcomed by a qualified teacher who conduct themselves in an educational manor at all times while instructing students.
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Ask yourself this: If you are being constantly monitored by CCTV...are you going to get a raise for outstanding performance? (Cue crickets chirping) or are you going to catch flak for anything that can be used against you? (cue 88mm barrage). |
I would ask myself this, the presumption of a raise is the obligations of the supervisor and not the employee so why would an employee consider this device a instrument that can be used against the worker. Would I want a worker who considered a safety feature a tool to use against someone. This would lend me to think tha the teacher has a habit of shirking in the classroom and wants to protect that kind of behavior.
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I would agree to cameras in my classroom if there were cameras also installed in every administration office. I would like to monitor the efficiency and 'due dilligence' of those above me to see that my school is being administered in the most effective manner. |
You mean you would agree if and when someone asked your opinion. Management usually has the last word when it comes to placement of surveillance cameras. If your saying tht you would choose not to work in a place which insures the safety of the school and the students with CCTV, it is quite within your power to do so but as to agreeing or disagreeing, the teacher either accepts the situation and works the contract or a replacement is brought in and the teacher can find employment at a school whose classroom observation expectations matches those of the teacher. |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| No, it really doesn't depend on who but on the procedure. If it is a standard to insure quality and children s safety as well as producing a record of classroom events and it is the policy of the company that employs the teacher, it is warranted and should be welcomed by a qualified teacher who conduct themselves in an educational manor at all times while instructing students. |
Finally! I've been reading all of these posts about "stealing" lesson plans, etc. Very confusing to me that anybody would care about such "theft". We are here to teach English; if you can help another teacher with your methods, isn't that the point? "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery." |
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kukiv
Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 328
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 2:38 am Post subject: |
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| Finally! I've been reading all of these posts about "stealing" lesson plans, etc. Very confusing to me that anybody would care about such "theft". We are here to teach English; if you can help another teacher with your methods, isn't that the point? "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery." |
While simply using, after no consultation with FT involved, is something that should bring a happy smile from every hard working teacher 
I don't think anyone here is making a call for setting cppyright on their lessons - I think the major problem is the lack of mutual professional respect - the feeling that you the teacher are also worthy of a little personal consultation.
I don't know if you've ever worked as an FT john - but when you do - you'll find out that part of the pleasure is to be valued for the work you do - where as to be just used as a money making tool that in turn waits tamely for its monthly pay-check - well you've got two routes - being a non-thinking machine or the classroom monkey  |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 3:51 am Post subject: |
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| I don't know if you've ever worked as an FT john |
That's what I am doing, have been doing, and probably will continue to do. Shortly after I began my current assignment, I was told by the other teachers that the students were speaking better English. Shortly after that, the dean of the languages department made it mandatory for all the other teachers to observe at least one of my classes. I never had any doubt as to why they were there. They wanted to use my methods (I'm the only native English speaker here). It never bothered me, I took it as a compliment. When contract renewal came up, they expedited it with a raise in pay (more of a raise than I asked for, in fact). If it works, don't fix it. |
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kukiv
Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 328
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| after I began my current assignment, I was told by the other teachers that the students were speaking better English. Shortly after that, the dean of the languages department made it mandatory for all the other teachers to observe at least one of my classes. I never had any doubt as to why they were there. They wanted to use my methods (I'm the only native English speaker here). It never bothered me, I took it as a compliment. When contract renewal came up, they expedited it with a raise in pay (more of a raise than I asked for, in fact). |
Well done John - but however 'heartening' your story is this thread ain't just about you - other posts relate to a different type of feeling relating to the experience of finding that their work has been copied, without direct consultation, by other teachers.
Of course we find out that this practice seems to be norm - but it can't help bringing a little irritation to the fore - after all just the mere act of telling someone that you're going to use their work and asking for advice - could be seen as professional recognition and a pat on the back gesture that can foster goodwill and better understanding. Ignoring these simple niceties could be seen as acts of ignorance from both sides - encouraging a "they don't care why should I' attitude.
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| If it works, don't fix it. |
A bit of advice John - don't forget -
If it works - then why not try to make it work even better
- which seems the route of a lot of sensible advancement in many fields and for the individual worker who takes pride in their work, a source of possible job satisfaction  |
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