Job Discussion Forums

[Texas_blu]

For those of you who'd like to feel a sense of independence in VN by driving your own motorbike in VN to work and other places for recreation, this would be a good link for you. There's a lot of things to learn and a lot of different opinions to reflect on. I started this thread 3 years ago on that "other" website. So, if you want - there's a lot of knowledge to gain...

http://saigonesl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1033&start=0

Happy motoring!

[snollygoster]

Before coming to Vietnam, I had motorbikes ( I mean motor bikes- not these bicycles with a motor) in my home country for many years, and learnt to drive defensively as a consequence.
For those who stepped out of an automobile and directly onto their first bike in Vietnam (Well they arent motorbikes really, are they, they are little little scooters), the change must be daunting. DEFENSIVELY is the key word. A bump on a tin can with a lawn mower motor is a bit more disastrous than one when you are inside a car.

If you are not prepared to believe that everyone on the road in Vietnam drives in an invisible bubble that extends to arms length only all around him or her, and that there is no world past that point, then you had better be prepared to be run into, sideswiped, pushed, shoved etc. Its rude yes, but you just dont exist- so develop "defensive" driving tactics or suffer.

The local "bikes" are not designed for big foreigners and the best I can do is use a Bonus- they are bigger (not much so) than most others, and because they are not those girly step thru models that are made for grannies back home, they scare the locals a bit- hence they stay out of the way.

So unless you install rotating swords on the wheels, butchers knives and fish hooks on the mirrors (if you are lucky enough to have them), and drive with your "armoured" elbows out at all times, think "defensive"- That other driver who couldnt possibly even dream of crossing the road and coming at you on the wrong side -will.

[Oh My God]

Wow!

Some really interesting stuff on this link left by Texas_blu, some really useful advice, and a pretty crazy exchange.

But I think especially relevant given this link from Thanh Nien...

http://www.thanhniennews.com/2010/Pages/Road-accidents-kill-940-in-Vietnam-hub.aspx

Watch yourself out there guys! It isn't getting any better.

[jb0072009]

Nothing surprising in that news story except I am surprised the number is not higher. In my 9 months of driving here and 20 years riding a motorcyle in USA I can offer some advice. 1) You need to adapt to the local style of driving such as driving on sidewalks, never stopping in the middle of the block to make a left turn (instead slowly move over to the opposite side of the road and then turn left into driveway), use your horn constantly, never make any sudden stops unless you want to be rear ended, dont stop when making a right turn on a red light. The key is to drive both defensively (try to anticipate what other drivers are going to do) and offensively at the same time. If you just drive defensively you will get hurt because no one else is. Vietnamese drivers are very rude and many are in a hurry. They will cut you off, go through red lights, bump your motorbike. The safest way to get from one place to another is to drive slowly. The reason is that you have time to react to some of the worst, craziest drivers on this planet. Do not be in a hurry and you should arrive in one piece! Be especially careful at intersections because many will run red lights kamikaze style so look both ways when approaching an intersection even when you have the green. Especially true when light has just turned green. Your best friends whilst driving are cars and taxis and buses believe it or not. They can provide protection for you when making turns at intersections. You simply turn on the inside lane next to them, they act as a barrier for oncoming traffic. Same for groups of other motorbikes, they can act as a barrier. Although illegal for motorbikes to drive in the left lane on a 4 lane road I always drive on the lane marker so I have an out. Last but not least remember it is a numbers game. The more you drive the higher chance of accident so drive only when you need to, take busses if they are convenient to where you are going. There are actually I have been told by some Viets people who target foreigners by running into them and demanding money. DO NOT PAY and say you will call the cahn sat (police). That will scare them away. In summary driving in Saigon is not for the easilly intimidated person or people who are afraid of taking risks. It is like playing Call of Duty but instead of being shot at you are being targeted by many obstacles such as other motorbikes, cars, taxis, trucks, busses, bicyles (I hate those), people walking and road hazards. Have fun!

[mark_in_saigon]

That is about 1 death for every 5,000 years of driving for the average driver in HCMC. If that is all it is, sounds a lot better than I would have guessed. I think the hidden deaths from air pollution intake while driving is much larger than that. The injury number looks really crazy, about 2 deaths for every 1 injury. How in the world can that be? Obviously, most injuries are not counted. I have seen a couple of wrecks, and known a couple of friends who have had what we would call injuries in the west, but don't know of any deaths here, personally.

While I agree that the driving is insane, I do not think that they are being particularly rude. It seems that the driving is a natural development based on lack of infrastructure to support standardized procedures, along with necessarily having to follow the rules created by the average driver. Driving is a huge subject, and it is not a simple subject either, I think it is a very significant part of the culture, and is one of their great joys, excitements and freedoms.

[deessell2]

Riding my Honda Wave through the streets of Hanoi used to be one of my pastimes, 30km cruising, checking out the street scene. That is history! The current traffic situation is ridiculous. You have to wonder how long the city is away from gridlock. And don't mention those cyclos, full of tourists complaining about the traffic, as their 'procession' blocks up streets in the old quarter.

To me, Hanoi is more dangerous now, than it was seven years ago, mainly due to the increase in traffic. After seeing numerous colleagues in HOSPITAL after motorbike accidents, I count myself extremely LUCKY to have never been involved in a motorcycle accident, even after driving on the roads for four years.

Never in all my travels, have I ever seen such blatant disregard for traffic rules.

Chaos theory in action! Funny when on holiday, but for day to day living, no thanks.

[jb0072009]

Yes Mark i would agree that the motorbike is very much a part of their culture, much like the car is in the West. They use their motorbikes the same way we use cars. However I still say they are very rude drivers (I guess it depends on what you define rude as)

[TimkinMS]

[Oh My God]

http://www.thanhniennews.com/2010/Pages/20100405115923.aspx

Another God-awful mess!

[mark_in_saigon]

great thing about the motorbike, one can drive AROUND the grid. Here in SG, the cars are sitting in line and we are hauling total ass around them. This place has been ruled by motorbikes for quite some time now, and continues to be. The monster trucks rule the fast lane of the main roads late at nite. Still, we are still getting around pretty well here, considering the numbers. I think the worst thing is breathing the air while driving in it.

I would like to address the concept of rudeness among the motorbike culture. While I won't argue that some people are always going to be rude drivers, anywhere, I would say that what we often consider to be rude here is just the normal process for driving. It is not meant to be rude, and when we follow the same process, we also are not being rude, we are just fitting in, in a very real sense. The big thing is when you are in front of another bike, you never worry about the ones behind you, only the ones in front of you or the ones coming in from the sides. That is the rule. So if someone passes you and then moves into you, actually bumping you, even though you were following a straight path at a steady speed, it is not rudeness. He got ahead, you were behind, he moved, you should have avoided. That is the process, you have the same right. Once you start making this kind of understanding part of your way of life, then you start to understand a lot more about the system and the culture generally. We just cannot live life, or expect standards or rules based on our point of view, here. We can observe and be amused, but this is not our system. If you are gonna play in their sandbox, you play by their rules. If we come over here and obsess about the eating of dogs and cats, the treatment of women, the driving, the air, the sanitation, we are missing the point. It comes with the life. Cat consomme? Tastes like chicken. Essence of bug (or worse) in your vegetables? Uhh, don't kid yourself, you get your fair share just like everyone else.

[jb0072009]

Interesting article. Personally I have found the taxi and bus drivers to be very good as well as the xe om. They have to be or they die. The problems as the article points out are lack of enforcement, education, poor infrastructure and culture (me first to the head of the line). Now that is so hot I ride only to work and the supermarket. Thats it. Just imagine what it would be like if they replaced half (about 2.2 milllion) of the motorbikes with cars. Now that is what I would call total gridlock! Get rid of those stupid round abouts and use flyovers instead. Bangkok 10 years ago was much like Saigon. Now look at it. A great train system and highway system. More cars than motorbikes. The government needs to get their sh*t together and make infrastructure and medical care high priorities else this will remain a third world country (if I am not heard from again please start a bail account to get me out of the slammer)

[mark_in_saigon]

however, if anyone is interested, there is a kick ass ss50 with a 72 cc engine on it for sale on VN CL. I bought the other one she had, the one I got has a 100cc, I could not resist, even though I already have a very nice supercub. Those things really haul ass with the upgraded engine, and I love the older style. This one is the prettier of the two, she said her father (I think) or someone who really knows what he is doing does the upgrades, the one I bought was excellent, I did not test the red one. The 100 was so fast I almost killed myself on the test drive, did not get out to a major road where you can wind it up, as I was passing everyone in second gear and the g forces were distorting my normally handsome facial features, I slowed down just in time. I think it is all about "power to weight ratio", those bikes are quite light, and the modern 100 engines really light a fire under em. Love those old Hondas.