Job Discussion Forums

[nickelgoat]

Hi!

I'm trying to find out more about this company - the ad here at Daves seems like a good one! Anyone currently there that can give me the lowdown? I checked this board and found some old posts, but they are all from before this current year. Is anything different from what was posted before? Thanks in advance!

[The Lathe of Heaven]

Yes I have some news. They used to rent a whole building just for the staff but this fell through at the end of 2008-2009 school year. Now it seems they are all holed up at the Hofuf hotel (3.47 star hotel ). There are no kitchens in the hotel suites and the internet there sucks. I know this because I went to Hofuf to pick up my stuff and move to my kinder gentler location (Qassim U). You will be there with some pretty nice staff but watch out for the Saudi director at King Faisal Prep Year Programme. If a student complains about you or if some of the upper echelon Shabaka staff don't like your attitude they will conspire against you and you will be out at the end of contract with no chance of renewal. Apparently the director of the PYP at King Faisal University was supposed to redeploy somewhere else but plans changed at the last minute to all our dismay.

All in all Mr. P. is a nice guy but not supportive of you due to allignment to the University brASS. He will get his family to work there so watch out if you don't fit in you could be replaced by his siblings. Many a good teacher were let go and staff dwindled to the original 7. I call them the magnificent seven because they'll take down anyone that gets in the way of their future there.

Good luck

TLOH

[nickelgoat]

Is "Mr. P" a North American, or is he Saudi? Hiring his siblings? Something sounds a bit off. Any other info? Anyone there this current school year?

[Big L]

You are drifting TLOH, I will give you that. And your "news"
is old news. C'mon man...give the guy something he can use.

Shabakah moved from Hofuf Hotel to their present compound
in Mabarraz in November. It's 20 min. to KFU. Twenty-five men and women teachers are presently living there , in an enclosed space that is not fully constructed yet.

Your buddy P is doing the best he can at reloading for next year. His goal is to share as much info as possible upfront to prospective hires. There
is no deception. What's the point of a shell game if teachers feel
stuck, or unhappy? Communication is key obviously.

I am not in a group of 7, Gang of 4 , or otherwise. I think the gig is challenging enough without the recriminations, pet oxes, moaning,
etc. Kind of like high school again; there are a few nerds, some thrive,
some don't get invited to the prom.

If anyone wants to PM me I'll try to answer your ?'s...

Toby

[Grendal]

[nickelgoat]

So - I had my phone interview with Mr. "P" after getting his lengthy email diatribe regarding the unfinished compound, etc. Sounds like he's being honest about the shortfalls of the place, but one paragraph caused me to pause where he talked about how he wouldn't hesitate to fire someone he believes isn't part of the "team". Tentatively, I have accepted a position. But what makes this director tick? How does he treat people, really? In general, now that you are about finished with your year, what are your feelings - has it started well and ended badly, as so many Gulf contracts do, or has this program been consistently high-quality from start to finish? I am considering two other offers now and need to make a decision soon. Thanks!

[westy]

Nickelgoat, I would like to bring you up to speed about what has been happening at Al-Shabaka, and it ain't pleasant at all!

The English Program Director, "P" (who is Canadian, BTW) just withdrew at least two contracts from teachers that he had offered only a couple of days before. He is also in Bahrain nearly every weekend with his brother and a small group of guys from this years crop of teachers that he likes, instead of dealing with issues as they have arisen on the compound and at King Faisal University.

The former Marine who was the first-year director here returned this year, and many people did not like him, feeling his style was too formal and his evaluations too severe. During the entire first semester, it was a power struggle between this guy and P, who had been a teacher the first year and was promoted to the EPD position, while the original director was to work as a promotor of Shabaka to other potential university clients. Only problem was, while all this was happening, the focus of anger was on the original director, and many of the teachers did not notice P's personality as being one that constantly threatens others with firing to get what he wants.

One male teacher left after a month, saying the program wasn't organized to his taste. Another male teacher showed signs of mental illness and was taken out of the classroom in mid-December, though he continued to live on the compound till the end of January, isolated in his own room.

In January, an overweight male teacher got sick from eating fish in the school cafeteria. He missed two classes that afternoon. A few days later, P fired him, saying he didn't like fat people and this came less than a month after P named the same teacher as outstanding in a meeting that was attended by all of us. This teacher went directly to the Saudi management and appealed, and P backed down. The teacher is now finishing his contract, has had no further health issues. He never trusted P again and refuses to speak with him.

One of P's buddies got into a bar fight in Bahrain and was arrested, missing at least 2 class days in the process, with no consequences. Other teachers have missed entire days, or classes, also with no issues from P. This raises a big issue of favortism. If P likes you, if you are just like him, you'll be fine. If you are different, you won't be.

The original director won't be returning next year, and many of the teachers seem to be realizing that he, at least, was honest and did everything he said he would do. P starts programs and ideas, but then doesn't follow through. He also has a strong anti-American prejudice and has said he would prefer an all-Canadian staff if possible.

Things we were promised by the management fell through. The compound wasn't finished when we arrived in October, so we spent the first month at Hofuf Hotel. Four buildings with eight apartments each were finished but little else, and for the entire time of the contract, the compound has resembled a construction zone. Two more apartment buildings might be open by the time the next group gets here, and a swimming pool that was started months ago is just now being tiled - just as we leave. Internet access we were promised has been sketchy - each time we got back from a break, it was out. Since the beginning of May, it has been almost nonexistent. It is very frustrating. P has done nothing to help us, instead always siding with management and saying we are spoiled, that we were never promised these things. We were.

The compound is in Mubarraz, near the Al-Othaim Mall. There is nothing else to do in the area except go there. Very depressing place.

I'm sure there'll be more postings about this - keep reading!

[Big L]

As Joe Friday used to say.."Just the facts Ma'am." And those
would be the facts...

T

[Mia Xanthi]

[westy]

Mia Xanthi, you answered some questions for P in 11/2008 on a thread entitled "Possible to enter on tourist visa and look for a job?" It is very easy to tell that this is P from his description of his work experience. Never knew he was broke and had little TEFL experience before he became a manager. Sad that he became a manager over much more qualified applicants.

That said, there will most likely be no female teachers from the Al-Shabaka program returning next year due to P's treatment of them. Just last October, we were told that Al-Shabaka's intent was to make this a good job to facilitate teacher retention after a disastrous first year. How quickly things change!

[freesoul]

Dismissed Canadian teacher seeks UNCHR intervention

http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentID=2010042870702

[scot47]

................and there are still posters here telling us it is okay to come on a business visa !

[veiledsentiments]

Our main supporter of such seems to have left the building... but there are some circumstances where a business visa would be acceptable. If it is a short term position... like 6 months... why go through all the hassles and jump through all the stupid hoops of the Saudi system?

But, if you are thinking of a longer term than that... better to be legal.

VS

[scot47]

The unfortunate Canadian referred to in the Saudi Gazette article has managed to stay on in Saudi Arabia. How did he manage that I wonder.

[Chthon]

I haven�t posted here in a while, but when threads about Shabaka pop up, I do feel the need to respond. I was the first regular teacher to arrive here when the Prep Year program started here at KFU with Shabaka, and have seen the majority of what has happened here with the program since. Some legitimate problems and concerns with Shabaka and the program have been brought up, but there is a trend I noticed last year when this started. For every legitimate problem with Shabaka that is brought up, four or five non-issues, problems with Saudi in general, and/or factual errors are piled on with it. I do have a desire to respond to such threads due to that; I don�t care to argue with anyone or to hurl insults, but I do like to comment when I feel that something unfair has been said.

Westy:
I don�t know who you are, and I will not pressure you to say who you are; I understand that, given the nature of your comments, you may have some apprehensions about stating your name up front. I also understand from your post that you are upset with a Shabaka on a number of points. I�m not here to tell you that you don�t have legitimate concerns or anything of that nature, but I would like you to be fair.
Your grievances seem to revolve around ten issues, most of which have more to do with �P� than with Shabaka itself. I will post the issues as I understand them here, in case I have misunderstood your intent.

1. P withdrew two contracts that were previously promised to those two teachers.
2. P spends his weekends in Bahrain and does not deal with compound or KFU issues during these weekends.
3. P threatens to fire others to get what he wants.
4. Two male teachers left early on, one for not preferring the way the program was organized and the other for showing signs of mental illness.
5. P fired a teacher because of his weight.
6. P shows favoritism to teachers whom he likes personally.
7. P is prejudiced against Americans.
8. Promises regarding the compound fell through.
9. P has done nothing to help teachers regarding these compound issues.
10. Mubarraz is a depressing place.

Seven of those ten seem to relate directly to P, rather than to Shabaka itself. I would suggest, if my understanding is indeed correct, that you could rephrase your post to make it more obvious that you are mostly addressing �P� issues and only one of them is a Shabaka specific issue. Shabaka, after all, is a Saudi company tied to the Saadoun family, who have a number of projects beyond the one with KFU. P simply works for this one program of theirs, so it would be more accurate for you to state that your post is about what has been happening with P, not at Shabaka.
As for the specific issues, as I feel that some of them should be addressed:

1. P works in management. He made a management decision based on what he felt was the best for the program. You could argue that P reneged on his verbal agreement, but I am sure that were I to ask him, he�d say that he felt those teachers reneged on whatever understanding he thought they had. I�m not saying the decision was right or wrong; but managers fire people for reasons they believe at legitimate managerial concerns. Simply pointing out that he changed his mind on keeping two teachers doesn�t make him right or wrong for doing so.

2. Those are weekends. It is not written in his contract or anyone else�s that compound and/or KFU duties extend into Thursday and Friday. It is his right, my right, and your right to go where we wish on the weekends as long as we�re back in time for work on Saturday. Were he to begin spending his weekends at work regularly, I would actually fear that the rest of us may be expected to follow suit. The bottom line is, while I spend some time in the office on a weekend once in a blue moon, I see no reason for him not to spend his weekends as he likes regularly. The same goes for you, and if you know me well (name signed at the bottom of this post), you know I would stick up for your right to do so as well, no matter who you are.

3. I have not heard of him threatening to fire people for this reason. He has made it more than clear that teachers who create personal conflicts at work or on the compound, who continuously flout the teacher agreement after the first few warnings as outlined by P in writing to each teacher, or who do not respect the requirements of the contract will be fired. If he has threatened you in private, then this is something I am unaware of and I cannot comment. But I do not know of incidents in which he threatened, ambiguously or unambiguously, to fire teachers as a means to �get what he wants� (whatever that means).

4. Indeed two male teachers did leave, but I don�t see how that relates to Shabaka. It would appear that you are piling up as many issues as you possibly can, which makes Shabaka appear to be responsible for all of these grievances you have. I am not saying you are doing this intentionally, but it is the result.

5. This is simply wrong. I know, because I was present both when the teacher initially resigned (in P's view)/was fired (in the teacher's view) and with the final meeting with the Saudi management. I know that you, Westy, were not present there because both of these meetings were private. The teacher in question is a great person and someone P has repeatedly said he has no personal problems with; he has also stated multiple times that the issue was not the teacher�s weight. There was a concern at that time that his lifestyle was harming his health; his actual weight was not the big issue. P asked the teacher to sign an agreement to resign and that if asked by future potential employers, he (P) would simply state that the teacher chose to leave over personal issues. The only people present at this meeting were the teacher in question, P, P�s brother who was this teacher�s office-mate, and myself. The teacher signed a statement of intent to resign, but later expressed to the Saudi management that he felt coerced and left without a choice. The final meeting occurred a few weeks later between the Saudi owner, P, and myself. Between the two meetings, the teacher had made serious and significant changes to his lifestyle; he began exercising regularly in addition to going for physical checkups. P even mentioned to me as he and I walked to the Saudi owner�s office that he actually felt the teacher deserved to stay at this point; I was still concerned about this teacher�s health and have since been proven wrong. The Saudi owner then told us at the end of all of it that we were required by contract to provide eighteen male instructors and that it didn�t make sense to let this teacher go and go through the pains of the visa process for someone else if he was trying to improve his life. So from the get go it worked out well. The teacher obviously has a lot of resentment toward P which I don�t really blame him for, but Westy, your telling of the story is factually flawed. This is probably because you were not present for either meeting; I was. While I understand that you seem to dislike P, I think you could have been more fair on this point.

6. This is one I was told by more than one teacher personally. Obviously, personal feelings affect all office environments. I will say, however, that P doesn�t have to like you personally for you to have an easy time here. As some older posters know, I am one of the �reverts� who are so detested by some non-Muslim teachers in Saudi. I married an Arabic woman and never socialize with P or any other teachers in or outside of the work place. I have my own life, my own friends here in Saudi, and I take care of myself. I treat everyone with respect and do my job the best that I can, but I am not close friends with a single coworker. Despite that, I have never had a major problem with any other English teacher here at work. Again, my name is at the bottom of the document; everyone who has taught here knows me (I do not socialize, but I do interact and I am visible) and every one of them has honest judgment will say that I am not part of any sort of an in crowd or clique; I show up, do my job, and go home. So while I am not denying that friendship plays an issue, Westy � in fact, I will not even deny that you have or have not been personally wronged by anybody because I don�t know who you are and will not make a judgment without knowledge � I don�t think it�s accurate to say that anyone who doesn�t hang out with P is destined to have problems here.

7. P is American. He is a landed immigrant in Canada. He makes jokes about the United States sometimes as he feels more at home in Canada, but he is not prejudiced against Americans and you are free to make any jokes you like about Canada.

8. Yes, some things promised in the compound have fallen through. Part of this is par the course in Saudi � while I will not deny that some compounds in this country are well-run and organized, I have not yet visited those compounds. To the root of the issue though, yes, the compound isn�t perfect and at the moment I don�t know where it will be at the beginning of next year.

9. P has done much out of public view for the teachers regarding compounds and other issues. He never brags about this or asks for appreciation. I am closer personally to the Saudi owner than the other teachers as I see him regularly outside the local mosque, so from chatting with him I am aware of many things P does for the teachers which they never know about. I will not say that he is perfect or that I agree with everything he does; but to say that he has done nothing to help us is an exaggeration. It�s alright to make potential teachers aware of real concerns here, and I am not saying that you have none, Westy, but you should be fair.

10. Well, yeah. You�re spot on there.

Westy, I would like to reiterate here that I do think you have legitimate concerns and grievances. However, I do feel that your post could be more fair, which is why I responded. I will not tell you not to be upset, but perhaps you should give what I posted some thought. It could make the information you offer here more focused and more helpful for teachers who want to make a decision on coming here.

Daniel