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shmooj

Joined: 11 Sep 2003 Posts: 1758 Location: Seoul, ROK
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Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 2:16 am Post subject: |
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ryuro wrote: |
Why should he have to take ANY of the tests- it's none of their damn business!
.... but this issue kind of hits a nerve with me. |
Take note - this person is still learning how to live in Japan. |
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Lynn

Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 696 Location: in between
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Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 2:42 am Post subject: |
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ironopolis wrote: |
However, "invasive" is NOT how the majority of Japanese people would see it. They look on it as an great advantage and very re-assuring to have a thorough health-check every year. Indeed, I've met lots of people who either themselves had or someone they know had some serious illness detected by one of these checks that might otherwise have gone unnoticed.
P. |
Yes, indeed. I worked at a public elementary school, but I didn't work through the BOE, I worked through a private company. I really wanted to get the medical exam done, but I wasn't allowed. I was very disappointed. Take advantage of such a thorough medical exam. |
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Gordon

Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan
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Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 4:38 am Post subject: |
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One thing I like about Japan is that they are very proactive when it comes to health checks. The Japanese often detect illnesses early on because of this. I just think the medical info is private, however the Japanese have a different version of what "private" really means. |
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scot47

Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343
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Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 7:17 am Post subject: Japan |
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If you are in Japan you should learn to play by the local rules.
You have left your Homeland and its rules behind you. |
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shmooj

Joined: 11 Sep 2003 Posts: 1758 Location: Seoul, ROK
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Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 4:22 am Post subject: Re: Japan |
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scot47 wrote: |
If you are in Japan you should learn to play by the local rules.
You have left your Homeland and its rules behind you. |
Worked in Japan Scot? Hmmm....
I disagree. If you play by the rules you will find yourself playing not by "their" rules but by the rules they lay down often for people who don't fit in their box one example being foreigners. It isn't as simple as when in Rome because, to a Japanese, you are never "in" anyway and as a GAIjin, are labelled as such (GAI=outside)
As I quoted before, the guy who has learned how to live in Japan, is the one who studies the system and uses it to his advantage very subtely without rocking the boat too much.
So, I would suggest learning how to manipulate the rules to your advantage rather than swallowing them hook line and sinker. That is, after all, what the Japanese do themselves in many cases. |
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ryuro
Joined: 22 Apr 2003 Posts: 91
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Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 7:21 am Post subject: |
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pppppppppplease shmooj!
Did you read my whole post?
I've been here for well over eight years- far past the "learning how to live in Japan" stage.
I'll go with the flow as much as anyone here who's learned how to manipulate the Japanese rules and protocol- however, this is one area where I simply will not bend- period!
Do I tell my my boss to "shove off' when he tells me about the annual physical- of course not. As I said before, I simply let them schedule and then suddenly become 'busy' on that day. They never bother me again.
This is strictly a very personal thing for me. I'm not saying everyone has to do what I do, but at certain times I think it's perfectly ok to say, "hey, I don't believe in this particular thing you're asking me to do. It's not part of my culture and really makes me uncomfortable."
That's not such a terrible thing. I'm not Japanese, never will be- so one can't be expected to be in lock-step with everything they want/ask of us. No need to start a revolution, but perfectly ok to practice a little personal rebellion once and a while.
Cheers,
ryuro |
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JimDunlop2

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Posts: 2286 Location: Japan
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Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 7:35 am Post subject: Suspicious? |
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Glenski wrote: |
What are you planning to refuse? Urine test? Why? |
No, Glenski. I don't take drugs. Never have; don't have friends who do. I'm a Christian. |
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Iwantmyrightsnow
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 202
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Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: Japan |
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scot47 wrote: |
If you are in Japan you should learn to play by the local rules.
You have left your Homeland and its rules behind you. |
When you say that you buy into the myth that Japan is a homogenous(?) group that all think and act the same. It isn't!!!!! Why do you think I played the game about the health check? Because I have Japanese friends who are involved in human rights groups who advised me. The first year I outright refused based on their recommendation and my own observation of what was happening in the news. They encouraged me to be confrontational about it; just as they are. Overtime I decided to let my boss off the hook and give him an easier way out. He knew where I stood and I wasn't going to rub his face in it. -Over that issue at least  |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1548 Location: Tokyo, Japan
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 6:20 am Post subject: |
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I'm actually rather grateful to have a full check-up.
But like some of you, I've experienced a lack of privacy. When I was a JET years ago, I went through the routine check and looked forward to seeing the results. I was shocked when I arrived at work one morning to find my results face up on my desk for all to see. I was really upset and expressed my hurt feelings to my supervisor. All employees' results had been handled the same way - your name, particulars and results face up on the desk.
At my school next week, we've got pee-in-the-cup day. What will we learn? I know I'm in good shape, but it's good to have a thorough check, and considering it's on the house, I'm not going to refuse.
However, I'm going to write a letter to the school nurse in both languages expressing how strongly I feel about utter and total privacy. I have a lot of confidence in my supervisor. If I ask for privacy, I'm sure he'll keep these health check results out from under people's noses. I know my fellow Japanese employees would be offended if others knew their personal business. |
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Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 10:47 am Post subject: |
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No, Glenski. I don't take drugs. Never have; don't have friends who do. I'm a Christian. |
Well, gee, Jim, plenty of Christians take drugs. All I wanted was a simple answer. Why not give it?
What test do you feel like refusing, and why? |
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Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 10:49 am Post subject: |
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At my school, they mail the results to your home. Total privacy.
The urine test is for blood sugar (diabetes check), various enzymes (early signs of certain cancer), and general organ workup (like liver). Only your employer knows if it is also used for drugs. Mine never even hinted at that. |
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shmooj

Joined: 11 Sep 2003 Posts: 1758 Location: Seoul, ROK
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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I don't take drugs... don't have friends who do. I'm a Christian. |
I hope having friends who take drugs and being a Christian aren't mutually exclusive concepts for you...  |
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JimDunlop2

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Posts: 2286 Location: Japan
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Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 4:44 am Post subject: a simple answer |
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Glenski: why not give a simple answer? Why not indeed?
I guess it would be much more simple if drug screening through urine samples had not become so commonplace in many areas. Making the first guess that the only test somebody would balk at might be the urine test is knowingly asking a pointed question. You are a very intelligent person, Glenski.... I know you would not ask your question in the manner you had out of ignorance of this fact. Hence, my somewhat pointed answer. But to answer your question, I find stomach X-rays unnecessary and rather repugnant (maybe it's having to swallow quantities of 'goop' that strikes a bad chord with me), and giving a blood sample is disturbing also.
Finally, privacy and disclosure aside, I find it nearly impossible to believe that a public institution would mandate such an examination merely for the health and well-being of its employees, rather than sanctioning them based on these results. My understanding of Japanese students who undergo medical screening is that they may well find themselves in a "special needs" school for those who, otherwise mentally normal, have what's deemed to be a "weak constitution" or an illness that may prevent them from attending a regular school. If this is true, what would be the fate of say, a teacher that didn't measure up to some invisible, arbitrary Japanese code? Dismissal? Enforced medical treatment? I don't know. Maybe you can tell me. All I know is that I trust most Japanese authorities about as far as I can chuck a piano...
Shmooj: in response to your comment, I do not find my faith mutually exclusive from having friends who engage in recreational drug use. However, having said that, I can also say I've found that quite often those who do include drugs in their lifestyle generally hold certain beliefs and values that I would qusetion. I agree that many Christians use drugs, but the real question then becomes: what is thier priority? I'd argue that for those Christians that enjoy drugs, their faith has quite likely taken a back seat to their desires for an experience of changed consciousness that drugs tend to offer. If you are a Christian using drugs regularily, you may want to step back and ask yourself some questions as to why you are doing them and whether God might find what you're doing objectionable. As a Christian, I should try (even though I often fail miserably) to live in such a way that I can be an example or model to someone, rather than a stumbling block or source of justification for doing the wrong thing. Ie. "Look at Jim! He's a strong Christian but he can go to the soapland whenever he wants. Why shouldn't I?" See what I mean?  |
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G Cthulhu
Joined: 07 Feb 2003 Posts: 1373 Location: Way, way off course.
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Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 3:28 am Post subject: |
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ryuro wrote: |
Why should he have to take ANY of the tests- it's none of their damn business!
This is one of those aspects of Japanese culture that I absolutley REFUSE to subscribe to the "when in Rome" principle.
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It happens in lots of countries, not just Japan. And as to why, two simple reasons: he works with the public and it can be a condition of employment if they want it to be.
Personally, I have great problems with anyone that objects to the *idea* of the tests. Objections based around the *way* they're actually done are good, but to object to the tests themselves as some sort of principle stand is simply arrogant selfishness IMO. |
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Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:00 am Post subject: |
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Jim,
Thanks for the pointed response. Clear and succinct.
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I find it nearly impossible to believe that a public institution would mandate such an examination merely for the health and well-being of its employees, |
What is the basis for this thinking? It's all covered by national health insurance, and Japan is great for protecting its groups. This is just one way of doing it.
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My understanding of Japanese students who undergo medical screening is that they may well find themselves in a "special needs" school for those who, otherwise mentally normal, have what's deemed to be a "weak constitution" or an illness that may prevent them from attending a regular school. |
Where did you get this idea? I work in a private HS and have many students in classes (well, ok, they are in the health center a lot) with medical problems. Some even have sociological/mental problems, but they are STILL registered as students. Their responsibilities in taking tests or doing various assignments or even attending school assemblies are taken with a grain of salt. Some don't have to take makeup tests, or do makeup homework. Some sit in the back of assemblies because they don't like closed-in spaces of sitting with other students. But, they STILL ATTEND SCHOOL.
These "special" students are identified from day one, and their medical / sociological histories are kept under close scrutiny FOR THEIR BENEFIT, so subsequent teachers can handle them with greater care instead of browbeating them into doing things they can't or are petrified of doing. It's not a conspiracy, and it certainly doesn't filter them OUT of the school system.
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what would be the fate of say, a teacher that didn't measure up to some invisible, arbitrary Japanese code? Dismissal? Enforced medical treatment? I don't know. Maybe you can tell me. |
We had a teacher who suffered a nervous breakdown 4 years ago. The next year he continued coming to school, although all he did was sit in the relaxation lounge or the massage chair, or sit at his desk. I can only assume he got paid for this. One year later, he resumed teaching. Another teacher suffered a serious stress-related illness, but he still works here. No special treatment, except that he (and another one with similar problems) are given latitude on the early hours they take to go home, while all other teachers stay until much later. No repercussions. |
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