Job Discussion Forums

[askiptochina]

I am noticing the Chinese like to say one thing one week, and then the following week they make changes without notifying people who will be directly affected by them.

In Korea, I would often get changes in schedule, but my pay always stayed the same. The Chinese seem like they are empowered to charge/take more later on because "we give a very good price, you can't get elsewhere".

I am in Shanghai now, I get this behavior in spades. Now, I am talking to other people elsewhere in China and they are doing the same thing.

I get the feeling wherever I go, it will be the same. I will sign up to work somewhere and when I get there I will find out the conditions have changed 360.

If this is just the way it is in China, I think I would rather head back to Korea and take the better pay.

Is the experience teaching here really that better? That's why I came here, I thought it would be better. However, as I said, I am just getting the runaround from schools.

[Zero]

Certainly the national culture is to act kind of like a boxer, always looking for an opening, trying to gain even the slightest advantage. I attribute it to the decades of hard times the country went through, where you pretty much had to be that way in order to survive.

[Teatime of Soul]

What did the current and former teachers tell you about this when you asked them, before you accepted the position?

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

I know that if you have never set foot in China to live, this might seem a bit harsh, but this is my opinion based on about 6 years in China plus being married to a Chinese lady, and being quite fluent in the language.

I have read dozens of articles written both by westerners and Chinese regarding this topic. Basically, it's kind of ingrained into them since childhood. I don't really want to go into specifics, so you'd probably be better off researching the topic yourself.

It starts from childhood having all the adults around them doing it so it's only natural to do the same thing.... and works its way up all the way to the top of the ladder. (think blocked internet and wacky news stories)

If the government has no problem hiding the truth or telling outright propagandas lies, what would lead anyone to believe the average Joe would not?

That said, and this is only a personal opinion, I rarely trust anything anyone in this country tells me unless we have known each other for a long time and are close friends. And that includes my boss of over 5 years.

[Halapo]

A contract is just a paper with a general game plan, that might be looked at again one day, here in China. People change things all the time, or leave terms as vague as they can. It pretty mind-blowing from a western point of view.

A lot of cultures are just naturally more helpful ( East/West/whatever ) or open to compromise. China is a land of "I am big, move. No, I am bigger, you move" with the end result being, the smaller person has to move. Compromise is seen as a huge weakness.
Also Chinese people tend to mistake compromise as meaning they have talked you into things, and they can keep talking you into more. Plus, for them everyday is more and more practice at this game ( like Great Wall said ). When you stand firm, they play the "no need to be rude" like it was your fault it happened. They have rehearsed and played out the moves countless times... So doing something unexpected is a good way to slow them down.

I get offers from new managers/owners of english schools here all the time. They try to invite me to dinner for a chat about how things will work, and-oh-look, there is 30 people/students waiting to hear what I have to say. The trick is to keep up with them, say by asking where my teaching fee for "dinner" is, or I walk out. If you do it in front of the "people/students" the owner almost has to pay up, cause he charged them money to be there...

Another example was a student came up to me today and asked if I would be the teacher-supervisor for his group project. I asked what it was about, he hummed and hawed, saying he wasn't sure yet... In the end, he just wanted me to come up with some ideas for his group and to use my camera.

No need to be parinoid, but just remember, they all think we are suckers waiting to work for free or spend all out money on junk.

How they think we can be rich and willing to work for nothing, that I never get...

[Jayray]

" ...they all think we are suckers waiting to work for free or spend all out money on junk. "

I agree with a lot that you have said up to this point. I don't get the feeling that anyone thinks that western teachers are suckers waiting to work for free, though. Perhaps your predecessors were like that, so the people with whom you are dealing are trying to take advantage of you.

My observation has been that when someone tries to take advantage of a westerner, it is because THEIR experience is that a lot of westerners are basically pretty honest and willing to compromise.

For the most part, my experience has been that it is assumed that I won't lift a finger for anything but money. At first, I was a bit offended by it, but when I considered the fact that I was under contract with the school, I should expect to be paid for anything that seriously encroached upon my time. Things which I thought to be part of my responsibility as a teacher ( attending school functions, presenting special lectures on occasion) I just didn't accept payment or I didn't ask for it.

If someone tries to treat me like a sucker or to bulldoze me, they learn pretty fast that I push back HARD. I consider myself to be a nice guy, but when the going gets tough, I am murder to deal with. People who try to do me get it back fifty times.

OTOH, I am good to those who are good to me.

Anyone who has been in China for awhile quickly learns who his friends are and who aren't--- both Asian and otherwise.

[Silent Shadow]

[Moon Over Parma]

As for comparing and contrasting South Korea or any other EFL market and mainland China, I offer a word of advice: get out of that mindset as soon as possible. It will make your time here better.

EDIT: I had too many windows open and accidentally responded to two entirely different posts in this unrelated post.

[theincredibleegg]

I once did stuff for free just to be nice to a colleague (wall decorations based on student's work). The teachers said 'thank you".

Two days later, they ask me to do some Easter stuff for the walls. "Ok, one time only. To be nice." So i basically do everything: Come up with ideas; teach the students; create materials etc.

In the afternoon, the teacher comes back and starts whining like a kid who lost her candy: "It's too small!!!".

After that, i stopped giving colleagues freebies. They're probably used to too make themselves look good in front of parents/principal.

NEVER be nice in this country.

[Silent Shadow]