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JGC458
Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 248
Location: Shanghai
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 Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Randolf wrote: |
If you think that learning language is about learning 'vocabulary' then no doubt your chinese is about the same level as the English of your students who when asked the question "what did you do on the weekend?" will invariably reply "sleeping".
If you think your job as a teacher is to "bring the language out" of people who don't speak English then please find me a French teacher who will "bring the french" out of me as I think it would be quite handy for chatting up the madamoiselles. In fact foreign languages aren't in people waiting to be 'brought out", and English is a foreign language to all but native speakers of English.
No matter what you have been told the majority of your students have little to no background in English, and I totally understand that you are at a total loss as to what to do about this and so grasp at these absurd "discussion topic" (and so on) straws.
Have fun. |
Oh omniscient Randolf the Wise!
We are of course only worthy of your chastisement
But have pity on mere mortals
And tell us, Oh Mighty Randolf...
What is the secret Secret to Teaching?! |
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Jayray
Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Posts: 373
Location: Back East
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Randolf wrote: |
No matter what you have been told the majority of your students have little to no background in English, and I totally understand that you are at a total loss as to what to do about this and so grasp at these absurd "discussion topic" (and so on) straws.
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Hmmmm... Interesting. Where have you been teaching English? Most of my university students have studied English for 8 or more years. Half of the middle schoolers I've taught are surprisingly fluent. I know a ten year-old who speaks like a native English speaker.
I've mostly taught in cities of less than 5,000,000 that most foreign teachers have never heard of or wouldn't consider setting foot in.
I knew a teacher whose students wouldn't speak in class. He thought that it was because they couldn't speak English.
Another teacher complained to her classes that they were " too stupid to learn."
Sometimes, the problem is with the teacher's method (or lack thereof). My advice to any teacher of any subject anywhere in the world: find what works for you and develop it.
I disagree that one cannot "bring out" students' speaking abilities. One can employ one simple method. It is called encouragement.
It helps to find topics that interest the students. On the college level, role-playing works very well because the students assume the role, so he doesn't feel as though it is he who is speaking. It's the character.
I agree that it is beneficial for the student to do some work beforehand, but I have found that with students who possess developed skills, giving them little time to prepare requires them to think on their feet, just as they would do in the "real" world.
For ideas to use in class, talk to your students! Spend some time with them. If one teaches 16-18 year olds or college students, their input will often go a long way toward establishing the kind of rapport that is so necessary in conducting a foreign language class. |
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The Ever-changing Cleric
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 1523
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| looks like randolf simply popped in to slag off some brainstorming/idea sharing amongst peers, ideas that actually produce results if delivered properly. as randolf offered nothing of value in any of his posts, it's safe to ignore anything he wrote. |
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donb2222
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 134
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Jayray wrote: |
For ideas to use in class, talk to your students! Spend some time with them. If one teaches 16-18 year olds or college students, their input will often go a long way toward establishing the kind of rapport that is so necessary in conducting a foreign language class. |
Some of my best lesson plans have been suggested by my students.
Speaking to them before and after class can be a great way to know what interests them and make the next days or weeks lesson plans.
I follow the book sometimes, but many of the discussion topics in my classes come from the students themselves. |
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Lister
Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 264
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| Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:58 am Post subject: |
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| Randolf wrote: |
If you think that learning language is about learning 'vocabulary' then no doubt your chinese is about the same level as the English of your students who when asked the question "what did you do on the weekend?" will invariably reply "sleeping".
If you think your job as a teacher is to "bring the language out" of people who don't speak English then please find me a French teacher who will "bring the french" out of me as I think it would be quite handy for chatting up the madamoiselles. In fact foreign languages aren't in people waiting to be 'brought out", and English is a foreign language to all but native speakers of English.
No matter what you have been told the majority of your students have little to no background in English, and I totally understand that you are at a total loss as to what to do about this and so grasp at these absurd "discussion topic" (and so on) straws.
Have fun. |
Part of learning how to do anything is being taught how to do it, then being given the chance to do it yourself.
Think back to when you were learning math at high school. The teacher would usually show you how to do it, then give you a few problems to solve yourself. Would you have learned near as much if the teacher had not given you the problems to solve?
How is learning a language different from anything else? You need the chance to try to use what you have learned. Would you agree Randolf ?
So if a teacher finds an interesting way to do this which engages the students, encourages the often shy or unmotivated ones and gives the teacher a chance to correct mistakes how is this an "absurd straw" ?
You think a class discussion is a ridiculous idea. Why? |
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Halapo
Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 140
Location: Jiangsu, China
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| Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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I have found that discussions don't work in middle school or senior school. As was said before, ask "What did you do this weekend?" and they say "Sleep, study, eat". These students just need to pass the college entry exam, and all their other subjects are taught on the basis of "You need to know this. Remember it. What did I just tell you? Now learn this..." It's all drills and mock tests. So when you asked them to discuss something, you are putting them on the spot for both English, and how they learn/think. Plus, the idea of "freedom of learning" is pretty alien to them, they can't be counted on to use free time wisely. I have found with my senior students, we can have a debate, but this works best towards the end of each unit, when the topics have been covered for 2 or 3 weeks, and they have had some time to prepare ( about 20 minutes of prep for 5-10 minutes of debate ). If you give them a very focused topic, vocabulary and setting, you might get this to work better at this level. I do find that at this age, they really don't find many things all that interesting, or are willing to admit it to this in front of their class. I have had some surprising one-on-one chats with students.
Still, when I look out over a class of 50+, read/recite/correct/repeat (the Chinese teachers way, it will keep your boss happy, and the students accept it ) feels like the best way to go (but maybe write your own text about some of the topics mentioned, and they might have some questions).
I should point out I don't teach at college, I just tutor them. I often speak with the Chinese English teachers at my school about what I am teaching. They have said more then a few times that English is very different in college from middle/senior school.
With college students, discussions work a better, other students are less-likely to laugh at mistakes (well not really), or the speaker can handle a bit of embarrassment now. The college students I tutor in groups of 8, is about 50% discussion and 50% grammar/vocabulary that comes up from the the discussions. Seeing as they pay for the class on a week to week basis, and keep coming back, I take it they are happy with what they learn and how.
<edit: I had a comment for Randolf, but I see more then a few people already set him straight, so no need to hate my hate-flame> |
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