Job Discussion Forums

[spiral78]

It's slightly off-topic, as this is a country-specific forum. But I've worked with Saudi students in both Canada and the Netherlands, and am attempting to code-crack a bit (having just been assigned two groups of Saudis after a three year hiatus, doing other things).

Today I met a new group of pre-med students. They have been here a week, and are studying in a mixed group: half women, half men. This is (I think) intended to ease them gradually into 'real' classes with local students - obviously quite a cultural leap for them.

In the past, the girls (they're young) have all been consistently quite conservative, though they interact readily in the mixed groups, especially after an initial integration period. I'm quite happy to be patient with the process - it must be pretty challenging for them.

Today, the new group included one young lady wearing no head scarf. No comment from anyone, including her (good on her) but the men will need some time to adjust to this, I think. It seems to be more challenging than accepting European women and their far more revealing styles.

Any insights into the situation as a whole? I don't want to imply that I think Saudi young people are unsophisticated entirely - there are always a few in each of our groups who have had six months or a year abroad already, and are really happy to talk about their experiences. But the majority are away from home for the first time, and are here without families.

They have a lot to adjust to both outside and inside the classroom. I'd like to support their success as much as I can (short of getting personally involved or involved outside of class - but creating an understanding and accepting classroom environment can help quite a bit, I hope).

Tips/insights? I'd appreciate anything you might have to offer!

[007]

[Sheikh N Bake]

Oh, get lost.

[007]

Why are you barking?

[veiledsentiments]

Well SnB, in this case, I rather agree with 007. In Oman, among the first year students, it was usually the boys who were most uncomfortable with having women in the classroom. Starting out with the women to the back is a good idea... and from then on, let them decide when they are ready to move.

That said, pre-med students are usually more relaxed about these things. It was in my pre-med classes in Oman where the girls sat to the right and the men to the left from the first day.

Personally, I would have a private meet with the women and ask their opinions. Because they are outside of their culture, the rules are definitely more bendable. They may be fine with mixed group work from the start. But, I would emphasize to them that it is a requirement of the course and that they need to be able to accept it - sooner rather than later.

VS

[Seditious]

[Mia Xanthi]

I would suggest letting them choose their own seating arrangements from the start. Tribe, status, and religious sect (Sunni or Shia) can all play into how comfortable they feel with each other, and in many cases these factors may even override gender considerations.

Spend your first week building rapport. Treat them as individuals and start out with no pre-conceived assumptions about what they may want or find important in a classroom. Make time to talk to each one individually and create a family-like bond with them individually. These things are far more important than any seating plan.

[trapezius]

Left-right split

OR

Let them seat themselves where they wish

[veiledsentiments]

All good ideas, but as to the women in the back idea. Unlike Seditious, even as a long time American feminist... after working with this system for 4 years in Oman, I saw that it was not a negative. It was NOT that the "poor" women were "forced" to take a back seat.

It allowed both groups to relax... and concentrate on the classroom information... not worrying about each other. The men didn't have to always be either trying to sneak a peek... or to not sneak a peek. The women truly felt that being in the back put them in power. They could control who could see them or not. (going to the situation of having relatives in the room)

It wasn't long before both the men and women relaxed and would freely come up to the front and write things on the board. It was very interesting watching the dynamic change and improve along with the students. Granted, these students were not as worldly as Pre-Med students studying abroad would be.

VS

[Seditious]

[spiral78]

HMMM. My OP must not have been very clear.
This program has been going on (successfully) for three years. Not my or our first experience with Saudi students abroad. Just a bit of extra insight might be useful, I thought.

But seating and respect and getting them talking isn't any problem.....

007: we have no rows or lectures. Not anywhere in the whole university - our 13,000 students all work in integrated teams with teachers as facilitators. They might attend 3 or 4 'lectures' per year. It's a whole new world, man.


I'm not concerned about seating arrangments. The girls naturally form a team, and the men as well - I'm not forcing them to work on the same small teams together, though they are required (and accomplish with some facility) to do whole-group/class work and reporting as well. They were able to do this on day 1.

The girls (no hijabs ever, by the way) have never appeared traumatised - in fact, I think they generally enjoy the experience both in and out of class. They form friendships with each other pretty readily and travel around by bus and train to other cities together. One famous weekend, they all made arrangements to have their hair cut into bangs in front that show beneath the headscarves. Seditious!

Speaking of which, Seditious,
The best way to open them up to understanding and accepting each other is by forcing them to respect each other. Challenge them to speak their minds and ask questions. A bit of competition might be in order. I've found moral issues to be the best way to open students up and have them engage in lively conversation.

Hmm. They're talking freely already. There's no indication that they don't respect each other. We prefer co-operative to competitive work, as this bridges them into their future studies here. I'm certainly not going to challenge their moral ideas - they are living in the Netherlands, after all - their daily environment is challenging enough!! No, there are no family relationships among them, either.


Again, sorry if I was misleading in my aims here. These aren't the first students here - the program's been going on successfully for three years. It's a new batch, yes, and we've got one apparent radical without a headscarf , but I was going for something a bit more subtle, I think, in terms of helping to bridge them into the European education system and environment.

I really appreciate the comments and interest, and hope for more - but the basics of classroom management stuff are going OK, and that's kinda not where I was hoping to go with this.

[spiral78]

Make time to talk to each one individually and create a family-like bond with them individually. These things are far more important than any seating plan

I've only got four hours with them weekly - and I have 150+ other students. Personal bonds aren't really practical, or even allowed, honestly. I'm not the parental type, either...

I've never imposed any seating plan on any of my students. They're all adults and I'm totally ok with whatever seating decisions they want to make. Occasionally, in a large class with mixed nationalities I ask students to choose teammates from different (or the same) language background for some pedagogical purpose, but that's for one task only in most cases.

Wow, sorry - I really did a poor job of setting the scene here, I'm afraid.

[trapezius]

Buy a large batch of magic brownies and bring them to class and give them to your students... that should be ample introduction to the Dutch environment!

[spiral78]

They do tend to discover some strange new stuff here - we had one last year who OD'd on Red Bull He was drinking them on the hour.

[johnslat]

Dear spiral78,

That's a lot of Bull!

Regards,
John