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Kionon
Joined: 12 Apr 2008 Posts: 226 Location: Kyoto, Japan and Dallas, Texas
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Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 4:38 am Post subject: rinji menkyo, hon menkyo |
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Imagine my surprise when I found out that I was already registered here...
Then I remembered that I actually got hired in my current position because I posted my resume here.
I have just started my third year in Japan, and am planning to make the decision of whether to stay permanently or not at the end of this year. I am applying for a job back in the United States that has an age limit- if I don't get it in the next year, I don't get it. Period. This was a dream job when I was younger, I had an earlier chance at it, and I blew it. If it works out, I will take it, if it doesn't, I plan to stay in Japan. There is nothing else I am interested in that would make me leave Japan.
I'm an ALT, I am happy being an ALT, and although I went to university to be an English teacher in the United States, Japan paid more than the school districts I was looking at teaching at. Before that, I taught in Korea. In addition, I have a lot in savings (let's just say, enough to buy a house maybe, although I won't go into details) for someone of my age and position. I have acclimated well, rarely get frustrated with Japanese behavior, am well known in my community participating in various organisations and events. I have even been in the local newspaper. My dispatch company has very little turnover with most ALTs having been here at least two years, and others closer to four. One is about to get married to a J-national. Most of us intend to stay put.
This being said, I am a qualified teacher, and I can find the expectations of ALTs to be, well, restrictive. I am just as competent as many of the JTEs I work with. This is usually not a problem, as the JTEs generally recognise this, know about my credentials in the US, and generally allow me to present lesson plans how I want. And I have learned a lot from the JTEs who are competent. The problem comes when I am (legally understandable, of course) subject to the whims of a new or incompetent JTE. We've all had them, but I imagine for those of us who come from an education background in our home country, this can be particularly annoying, because we can't do our jobs effectively, and the kids don't learn.
This is why, once I am certain I will not have the job I wanted as a kid (and screwed myself over for as an adolescent), I intend to pursue a Japanese teaching license and work on permanent residency. Here's what I think I understand about Japanese teaching licenses:
Rinji Menkyo is granted by the BoE for the school or area you wish to teach at and is a temporary license for three years while you work to complete the requirements for the hon menkyo. This takes roughly two years and costs under $5000, depending on the university (\30万 - \45万). What I don't understand is this the MUNICIPAL or the PREFECTURAL board of education? If someone could clear that up for me, I would appreciate it.
I spoke to one of my bosses in my dispatch company, since I will be hitting the three year mark soon, and told them this is what I planned to do. Not only was he surprisingly enthusiastic, but he told me to go ahead and sit down with the municipal BoE (which I will do today) and tell them my plans so that they might be able to help me find information and possibly come back to student teach or teach (since I would presume my US student teaching and my time as an ALT is immaterial). He also told me that in one of the few other areas that my rather small company serves, another ALT did this. He is now a "normal" J-teacher with a Japanese education degree and a homeroom in an area public junior high school. This reflects very well on the dispatch company and is not considered "competition" of any sort. This particular teacher is an Australian, with Permanent Residency, but not citizenship.
Given the good relationship between the municipal BoE and the ALTs, including myself, I see no reason to doubt any of the above is true. Granted my area is a mix of rural and industrial, and is a suburb of a major port, and not an insignificant amount of my students are half or even full on non-Japanese. Most, of course, are south-east asian. The number of Westerners is still like... twenty. Although, as I have said recently, I have had American students in the Japanese system. We are also growing and have a higher birthrate compared to the rest of Japan, according to the people I speak to at the city office. We recently had a major reconstruction of the city office, parking lots, and recreational facilities due to the amount of growth. I think this is also due to the proximity of the port, the increase in trade with China, and the increase in the number of mixed families.
So this is essentially the plan, as outlined by my boss:
Start taking intensive Japanese courses -> Get rinji menkyo -> pass JPLT1 -> go to J-University -> Get J education degree -> Get hon menkyo -> get "normal" J-teacher job. I was planning to run this timeline by the BoE as well.
Is this correct? I'm in Kansai, and wish to stay here. So suggestions on being able to do this within a radius of, say, three hours by train or car would be best. Osaka, Kyoto, and Kobe are all about equidistant. |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003 Posts: 2021 Location: Japan
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Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 9:24 am Post subject: |
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Do you think that a board of education would hire a foreigner to do exactly the same job as a Japanese person? A large, large portion of the Japanese teacher's job is being a role model of the Japanese person that the school wants to turn the students into. Your dispatch company could be being so positive about it because they know that what will end up happening is that you will end up with a Japanese Teacher's Licence working as an ALT for a dispatch company, and although you will get paid absolutely nothing more, they will demand more for it. |
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Kionon
Joined: 12 Apr 2008 Posts: 226 Location: Kyoto, Japan and Dallas, Texas
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Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 10:29 am Post subject: |
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GambateBingBangBOOM wrote: |
Do you think that a board of education would hire a foreigner to do exactly the same job as a Japanese person? |
If the foreigner was qualified; yes. However, it doesn't matter what I think, because I spoke to my BoE today. Not only did they tell me that it was possible, they told me that in fact they have already done this in the past. A few years ago a female ALT decided to do this and ended up with hon menkyo and was hired at one of the high schools. They would like me to pass a JLPT level (preferably 2, but they might consider 3) before they worked with me on the paperwork involved for the rinji menkyo. I think this is completely reasonable.
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A large, large portion of the Japanese teacher's job is being a role model of the Japanese person that the school wants to turn the students into. |
I've already been told that I am an excellent role model by several teachers and members of the BoE, so your implication I would not be "up to the task" in the eyes of the Japanese is silly. Are there inherent biases? Sure. Is this unfortunate? Yes. Would they prevent me from being hired by my BoE? From how ready they were to help me, granted I met the benchmarks, sounded to me like they would be delighted to have me aboard.
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Your dispatch company could be being so positive about it because they know that what will end up happening is that you will end up with a Japanese Teacher's Licence working as an ALT for a dispatch company, and although you will get paid absolutely nothing more, they will demand more for it. |
Wow, bad experiences, had we? I'm sorry life didn't meet up to your expectations, but that doesn't mean it's crappy for all of us. Don't be a source for misinformation on the extent of anti-foriegner bias in Japan. You only make yourself look silly. |
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Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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Kionon wrote: |
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A large, large portion of the Japanese teacher's job is being a role model of the Japanese person that the school wants to turn the students into. |
I've already been told that I am an excellent role model by several teachers and members of the BoE, so your implication I would not be "up to the task" in the eyes of the Japanese is silly. Are there inherent biases? Sure. Is this unfortunate? Yes. Would they prevent me from being hired by my BoE? From how ready they were to help me, granted I met the benchmarks, sounded to me like they would be delighted to have me aboard. |
I think the implication was that you need to be a Japanese role model for the Japanese students, not a teacher role model for other teachers.
If you get a full-fledged license and are expected to become a homeroom teacher, you have your hands extremely full of responsibilities. More than JLPT 3 will be needed. Far more. |
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Kionon
Joined: 12 Apr 2008 Posts: 226 Location: Kyoto, Japan and Dallas, Texas
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Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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Glenski wrote: |
I think the implication was that you need to be a Japanese role model for the Japanese students, not a teacher role model for other teachers. |
I suppose I wasn't clear. I was explicitly stating that I've been told I am an excellent role model for the students. I understood the implication, and I addressed it.
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If you get a full-fledged license and are expected to become a homeroom teacher, you have your hands extremely full of responsibilities. More than JLPT 3 will be needed. Far more. |
Well, yes, I understand that, but since JLPT 1 is needed to even make into J-University, and it is understood that you have three years under rinji menkyo in which to attain that entrance and get your 60 hours and degree, then renji menkyo does not require you to already have JLPT 1.
Not every hon menkyo teacher is an HRT. My guess is (and I could explicitly ask if it is that important to Gambatte) that I would definitely not have a homeroom under rinji menkyo. I would simply be legally allowed to teach solo lessons. I doubt very highly I would be given as much responsibility as teachers who have hon menkyo, especially since not all of those teachers even have the same responsibilities. |
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Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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Kionon wrote: |
Glenski wrote: |
I think the implication was that you need to be a Japanese role model for the Japanese students, not a teacher role model for other teachers. |
I suppose I wasn't clear. I was explicitly stating that I've been told I am an excellent role model for the students. |
I don't doubt the sincerity of people who may have given you that impression, but unless you are Japanese, you cannot (in their eyes) be a true role model for them. Keep that in mind. Foreigners are constantly reminded of that sort of thing every day here.
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If you get a full-fledged license and are expected to become a homeroom teacher, you have your hands extremely full of responsibilities. More than JLPT 3 will be needed. Far more. |
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since JLPT 1 is needed to even make into J-University |
No, it is not. Where did you hear that? |
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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009 Posts: 1546 Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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Kionon wrote: |
I suppose I wasn't clear. I was explicitly stating that I've been told I am an excellent role model for the students. I understood the implication, and I addressed it. |
No one is questioning your ability to be an excellent role model or casting doubt on how your Japanese collegues view you. The question if can you be a Japanese role model to the students? But perhaps they can see the merit of having you as a role model showing a slightly different path to what the typical Japanese teacher is promoting. You're kind of more "go to school, study hard, get a decent education and then the world is your oyster," whilst they are "go to school, study hard, get a decent education, join the Japanese work force."
I often receive diaries from my students in English or the Japanese ones from their HRTs where they talk about how the find English difficult but want to study it hard so that one day they can go to uni or work abroad like I have and do. I've even had parents tell me that their kids have started studying English harder since they met me which they are very pleased about.
So no, you can't be an excellent Japanese role model, but you can be an excellent role model for something viewed by many to be just as good and far better than what your average JET is often promoting  |
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Kionon
Joined: 12 Apr 2008 Posts: 226 Location: Kyoto, Japan and Dallas, Texas
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Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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Glenski wrote: |
I don't doubt the sincerity of people who may have given you that impression, but unless you are Japanese, you cannot (in their eyes) be a true role model for them. Keep that in mind. Foreigners are constantly reminded of that sort of thing every day here. |
I'm not. I don't want to get into a debate about institutionalised bias, Glenski (and I'm surprised at you; I didn't expect you to be so negative after the PM that lead me here). I recognise it exists, but so far I haven't seen or experienced anything like the anecdotes I routinely see others post; on any forum. Maybe it's the high content of South East Asians. Maybe I just live in a more tolerant city. I doubt it. My inclination is to doubt either of those are true. I have never been made to feel inferior or less than valuable as a person by anyone who matters. Have I run into jerks? Yes. To be blunt, I just don't believe Japan is any better or worse than any other country, including my own. Thus, even if it is somehow accurate that in the back of their minds every Japanese person sees me as inferior, as long as they don't act on it, I don't much care. However, I just find this to be false, and do not seriously entertain any notion of its validity.
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No, it is not. Where did you hear that? |
The very conversations you were involved in on different forums. For the universities that have the 60 hour programs (that basically take transfer credit from your own degree) JLPT 1 is needed. Nihon Daigaku is an example. I could pull up others and quotes. I don't know (nor care) if it's not required for other programs, since other programs wouldn't do me any good.
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No one is questioning your ability to be an excellent role model or casting doubt on how your Japanese collegues view you. The question if can you be a Japanese role model to the students? But perhaps they can see the merit of having you as a role model showing a slightly different path to what the typical Japanese teacher is promoting. You're kind of more "go to school, study hard, get a decent education and then the world is your oyster," whilst they are "go to school, study hard, get a decent education, join the Japanese work force." |
Well, I am not Japanese, certainly not ethnically (even if I got J-citizenship or something), why would I reasonably think that I could be an ethnic or cultural role model? I don't think that was what Gambatte was implying. I think he was implying I couldn't be a good role model for the kids at all in any capacity, according to the Japanese. I think your take on it accurately describes what I precisely believe to be the case. Again, I really can only speak to my own experiences, but my BoE has been very open with discussing teaching methods and philosophies in the United States, considering how to apply them (same with other countries), and has even started a pilot program at one of our high schools based on a Finnish model. We have a fair number of non-Japanese students (as I said, some of them are American, although only one at every other school or so), and the BoE is aware of the needs to serve a multi-cultural community. Again, I could just live in Japanese Wonderland, but I really doubt it.
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I often receive diaries from my students in English or the Japanese ones from their HRTs where they talk about how the find English difficult but want to study it hard so that one day they can go to uni or work abroad like I have and do. I've even had parents tell me that their kids have started studying English harder since they met me which they are very pleased about. |
This mirrors my experiences, and why I wish to keep doing what I am doing. And why I went to university to teach English in the first place. I have students who keep in contact with me from when I first came and tell me how they are doing with English at the high school level. Soon some of those same students will be going to university, and I expect I'll hear all about it.
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So no, you can't be an excellent Japanese role model, but you can be an excellent role model for something viewed by many to be just as good and far better than what your average JET is often promoting. |
This is all I ever thought was the case. If that's what Gambatte was implying, then I owe him an apology. If it isn't, I still think he owes me one. |
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