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Teatime of Soul
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 905
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 Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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Why would a school that COULD have you arrive sponsored, on a correct visa REFUSE to do so?
I've heard the old "no time to do it by the book" excuses many times; from shady employers and saddened ex-employees.
Funny how when it comes to providing for your basic protections, there is "no time". But when it comes to having you there to bring in the cash, it is "urgent".
Don't buy the hype.
It's just a glorified trans-oceanic job interview at your expense.
<cue recruiter's shills> |
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flyingscotsman
Joined: 24 Mar 2010
Posts: 339
Location: Suzhou, China
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| Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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You need to consider the RISK FACTOR here. Risk to Web 0. Risk to you 100%. What's this mean? You spend all this money to get to Shanghai on a tourist visa. You get to Shanghai, and maybe another white face walked into the door and said "Hey gotta job for me?" and got your job. Without them sponsoring a real working visa for you and you arriving on it there's NOTHING you can do. You'd be out your airfare and scrambling to find a place to live in China's most expensive city.
Do some searches on this forum and you'll find dozens of horror stories of those being promised a working visa once they get to China only to find out either the school CAN'T get a visa ( yeah Web can but that still don't mean anything), they gave the promised job to another person. or they took a look at you and just didn't like the way you looked ( big nose, not white enough, maybe looked a little Asian or other etc).
You get the point. Unless you procure a Z visa outside of China then you have ZERO protection once you get to China. And I use the term protection loosely of course. And if the school can in fact get you a working visa when you arrive in China it should take them about a week after you do the medical exam. If they stall you for more than that they are just stalling for their own reasons.
Beware the lies, and beware the training schools. |
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gene
Joined: 03 Mar 2010
Posts: 187
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:45 am Post subject: |
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| You get the point. Unless you procure a Z visa outside of China then you have ZERO protection once you get to China. |
I have seen this statement many times but have yet witness any actually protection the Z might have to offer to either the employer or potential teacher. Those with Zs often abscond to other employment once they arrive using the Z as a kind of insurance and as to it being any surety of a job offer, there are numerous examples of those who were issued a Z not being employed by the issuing school or educational facility not ending up on the work roll.
I would look at past experiences with the school and judge the potential outcomes from those factors .... at some point your gonna roll the dice ... |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 2:07 am Post subject: |
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| at some point your gonna roll the dice ... |
Just like every second of everybody's EXISTENCE. Be prepared for ANY eventuality. However, their willingness to make the effort to get the Z visa would indicate SOME sincerity. |
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The Ever-changing Cleric
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 1523
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 2:15 am Post subject: |
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| anyone who comes to china for any kind of work on any kind of visa, should always have a Plan B in the event things dont work out. Plan B includes a plan on where to go and what to do next, and the funds to do it. Having a workable Plan B is your only real protection in the event you get screwed over. |
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gene
Joined: 03 Mar 2010
Posts: 187
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 2:36 am Post subject: |
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| anyone who comes to china for any kind of work on any kind of visa, should always have a Plan B in the event things dont work out. Plan B includes a plan on where to go and what to do next, and the funds to do it. Having a workable Plan B is your only real protection in the event you get screwed over. |
Word!
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| However, their willingness to make the effort to get the Z visa would indicate SOME sincerity. |
Agreed, and not saying that anyone should come ona L ... Like I said, I had the invite letter and decided to come on the L which I thought to be safer in-case I didn't want to be employed by the issuing school. |
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randyj
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 460
Location: Nanjing, Jiangsu, China
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 3:51 am Post subject: |
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| Last year I reluctantly arrived on an "L" visa. The "L" visa was already in my possession from a trip to China earlier in the year, and the school persuaded me to enter the country on that basis. As I said, I was very reluctant. Among the already posted risks and illegalities, I also committed a crime just filling out the entry form. Naturally I did not want to indicate I was going to work with my "L" visa! So before deciding, I contacted four former foreign teachers, who all gave glowing reports. Communicating with my contact at the school also provided a nice, fuzzy feeling. In the end, there were no surprises. Everything worked as advertised. It did require some faith. |
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Calypso
Joined: 31 Dec 2009
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 3:57 am Post subject: |
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I wasn't thrilled to come over on a tourist visa but was assured it was 'the usual thing'. I insisted on a signed contract from the school being emailed to me before I came over, which was no drama. I worked for close to 2 months then the school paid for me to go to Hong Kong to get a Z visa.
It was in my contract that I would pay the initial visa fee (the L visa) and they would cover any extra visa-related costs. They paid for my trip to HK, accommodation, plus all the visa and medical fees. This was just at a private language school though and I gather it depends largely on your powers of negotiation and who you deal with.
The experience for me was straightforward but technically you ARE working illegally. It's a calculated risk that only you can decide to take or not. |
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Teatime of Soul
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 905
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Those with Zs often abscond to other employment once they arrive using the Z as a kind of insurance and as to it being any surety of a job offer, there are numerous examples of those who were issued a Z not being employed by the issuing school or educational facility not ending up on the work roll. |
1. Good luck with that absconding to another employer. Maybe you didn't notice the perforation at the top of your Letter of Invitation. Guess what that is? That missing piece has the same red serial number and the name of the hiring school. It has to be presented by the employer, along with the employee's matching serial numbered paper in order to Start processing after arrival.
2. If teacher arrives on a Z visa the school is responsible for the teacher until they get things sorted with the authorities if they are unable to hire them. First, the local PSB would push HARD on the school to make things right. Second, the school's SAFEA license would be in jeopardy. The teacher-abandoned-on-a-Z-visa is as much as a myth as the teacher-absconding-to-another -employer myth.
Remember, recruiter's shills work these boards hard to convince newbies that it is all OK to illegally arrive.
Here's what is funny. Whenever someone, like a poster a week or two ago gets burnt taking their advice, they are deadly quiet. No advice, none of the reassurances they were offering to others when dispensing their bilge water.
Know the risks and choose accordingly. |
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gene
Joined: 03 Mar 2010
Posts: 187
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| 1. Good luck with that absconding to another employer. Maybe you didn't notice the perforation at the top of your Letter of Invitation. Guess what that is? That missing piece has the same red serial number and the name of the hiring school. It has to be presented by the employer, along with the employee's matching serial numbered paper in order to Start processing after arrival. |
Noted and discovered it didn't have much weight..
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| 2. If teacher arrives on a Z visa the school is responsible for the teacher until they get things sorted with the authorities if they are unable to hire them. First, the local PSB would push HARD on the school to make things right. Second, the school's SAFEA license would be in jeopardy. The teacher-abandoned-on-a-Z-visa is as much as a myth as the teacher-absconding-to-another -employer myth. |
Perhaps this is your experience, but in my experience this kind of assurance is false and a misdirection. Dont count of this kind of support.
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| Remember, recruiter's shills work these boards hard to convince newbies that it is all OK to illegally arrive. |
So do schools which have associated members with agendas but one thing is for sure, when a poster try to discredit another post by insinuating the poster is a shill, it is a clear indication that they have other agendas.
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| Here's what is funny. Whenever someone, like a poster a week or two ago gets burnt taking their advice, they are deadly quiet. No advice, none of the reassurances they were offering to others when dispensing their bilge water. |
Here is the thing, no one should offer any advice, only experiences as they are the only real guidelines. Beware those who claim they have the right answer. I have offered no advice as indicated or have I recommended a applicant come on a L. I have only reported why I did and some of the other outcomes I have witnessed. Applicants get burned whither they have the Z or the L... |
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davejw6
Joined: 04 Jul 2009
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Government universities in Shanghai are no problem when changing a tourist visa to a work visa, but I would be cautious with a language school. Try to contact teachers who are working there now. |
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Teatime of Soul
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 905
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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You might be interested in reading this article that offers both views on the matter and some data collected from FTs.
While individual experiences are perhaps interesting, we all know the plural of anecdote is not data.
http://middlekingdomlife.com/guide/china-english-teacher-visas.htm
Do your due diligence and choose according to the level of risk acceptable to you. |
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