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shanewarne
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 146
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 Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Wide Awake wrote: |
Why do I have a work permit then? I don't have a CELTA or a TEFL.
If you have a BA in Education you do not need a CELTA. It's one of the only things that makes sense in the work permit process. |
ah, well that explains it then. I think the point is, most teachers here dont have a BA in Education and therefore require a notarized CELTA. |
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CThomas
Joined: 21 Oct 2009
Posts: 380
Location: HCMC, Vietnam
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 12:10 am Post subject: |
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| shanewarne wrote: |
| Wide Awake wrote: |
Why do I have a work permit then? I don't have a CELTA or a TEFL.
If you have a BA in Education you do not need a CELTA. It's one of the only things that makes sense in the work permit process. |
ah, well that explains it then. I think the point is, most teachers here dont have a BA in Education and therefore require a notarized CELTA. |
You don't need a Bachelors degree in Education or a CELTA/TEFL to get a work permit to teach English in Vietnam. |
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shanewarne
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| CThomas wrote: |
| shanewarne wrote: |
| Wide Awake wrote: |
Why do I have a work permit then? I don't have a CELTA or a TEFL.
If you have a BA in Education you do not need a CELTA. It's one of the only things that makes sense in the work permit process. |
ah, well that explains it then. I think the point is, most teachers here dont have a BA in Education and therefore require a notarized CELTA. |
You don't need a Bachelors degree in Education or a CELTA/TEFL to get a work permit to teach English in Vietnam. |
Yes, you do. |
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jb0072009
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
Posts: 127
Location: Saigon
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| OK this thing about do you or don't you need what for a WP is getting ridiculous. If you look at Vietnamese government websites they say what is needed. 1 site is http://www.dpi.hochiminhcity.gov.vn/invest/html/law1-2.html . You will notice that is says copy of diploma or certficate. Now I recently got a WP and have no TEFL/CELTA. Yes I have a Masters degree, yes I teach ESL and TOEFL here. However I do have a teaching credential from California and 10 years experience as a high school science teacher. Interesting thing mentioned on that webpage is about pay. Many people have said on this forum that the schools are required to pay in dong. The webpage says that they can pay foreigner in foreign currency (I am paid in dollars). Then there is this article http://www.thanhniennews.com/2010/Pages/20100410163137.aspx which says in more detail the same things. The actual agency website is http://www.molisa.gov.vn/ but it is only in Vietnamese. The best article by far is this: http://www.expat.vn/work-permit-in-vietnam . That would explain why you do not need a TEFL/CELTA cert to get a work permit. Hope this helps |
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CThomas
Joined: 21 Oct 2009
Posts: 380
Location: HCMC, Vietnam
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| shanewarne wrote: |
| CThomas wrote: |
| shanewarne wrote: |
| Wide Awake wrote: |
Why do I have a work permit then? I don't have a CELTA or a TEFL.
If you have a BA in Education you do not need a CELTA. It's one of the only things that makes sense in the work permit process. |
ah, well that explains it then. I think the point is, most teachers here dont have a BA in Education and therefore require a notarized CELTA. |
You don't need a Bachelors degree in Education or a CELTA/TEFL to get a work permit to teach English in Vietnam. |
Yes, you do. |
No, neither a BA in Education nor a TEFL/CELTA is necessary to get a WP. See jb's posted links. But any school or workplace can require whatever they want on top of the VN requirements. |
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shanewarne
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| CThomas wrote: |
| shanewarne wrote: |
| CThomas wrote: |
| shanewarne wrote: |
| Wide Awake wrote: |
Why do I have a work permit then? I don't have a CELTA or a TEFL.
If you have a BA in Education you do not need a CELTA. It's one of the only things that makes sense in the work permit process. |
ah, well that explains it then. I think the point is, most teachers here dont have a BA in Education and therefore require a notarized CELTA. |
You don't need a Bachelors degree in Education or a CELTA/TEFL to get a work permit to teach English in Vietnam. |
Yes, you do. |
No, neither a BA in Education nor a TEFL/CELTA is necessary to get a WP. See jb's posted links. But any school or workplace can require whatever they want on top of the VN requirements. |
All the established schools, language centres and colleges that I know insist on a notarized TEFL/CELTA certificate. Why is that? Anyway, to be on the safe side I would get my cert notarized. Why risk the hassle and thats just my opinion. |
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Oh My God
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 273
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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Everytime I see somebody post the "new definitive answer" to the WP situation - I just have to chuckle and think to myself:
An honest attempt to help other people BUT just another newby...
After living here some 5+ years, I can truly say that making laws and enforcing those laws in VN has been as diversified as there are the number of expats here, in my experience.
For every person that has a good reaction to the laws - there seems to be the same or more whom haven't. Let us NOT try to associate Western Values to a separately developed Society. With the membership in organizations like the WTO and loans from organization like the World Bank, we'll start to see changes more in line with International Values BUT that is developing and not without some reluctance or resentment to those changes.
Personally, I liked the older system better - even with the corruption and misinformation. Then, the trick was in knowing the correct person to pay off. This is STILL true but everybody is scared now about getting caught. |
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CThomas
Joined: 21 Oct 2009
Posts: 380
Location: HCMC, Vietnam
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| shanewarne wrote: |
| CThomas wrote: |
| shanewarne wrote: |
| CThomas wrote: |
| shanewarne wrote: |
| Wide Awake wrote: |
Why do I have a work permit then? I don't have a CELTA or a TEFL.
If you have a BA in Education you do not need a CELTA. It's one of the only things that makes sense in the work permit process. |
ah, well that explains it then. I think the point is, most teachers here dont have a BA in Education and therefore require a notarized CELTA. |
You don't need a Bachelors degree in Education or a CELTA/TEFL to get a work permit to teach English in Vietnam. |
Yes, you do. |
No, neither a BA in Education nor a TEFL/CELTA is necessary to get a WP. See jb's posted links. But any school or workplace can require whatever they want on top of the VN requirements. |
All the established schools, language centres and colleges that I know insist on a notarized TEFL/CELTA certificate. Why is that? Anyway, to be on the safe side I would get my cert notarized. Why risk the hassle and thats just my opinion. |
I agree 100%. To answer your question it is because a. they respect the cert better than their own immediate judgement (that's fair for a lot of pragmatic reasons, and the certs do mean something, imho, after all) or b. they offer them: the CELTA certs here are very good.
I respect both a and b, but it's true: if you have a BA in sociology and feel attracted to Vietnam, you can get a bonafide WP here, provided you do everything everyone is echoing here. Or you can just bring your diploma and blow the right person, so to speak.
For me, this is both Hotel California and also a place to actualize my dreams: welcome, everybody; just do your homework and follow your bliss. And STAY AWAY FROM UNESCO.
Such a lovely place... |
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CThomas
Joined: 21 Oct 2009
Posts: 380
Location: HCMC, Vietnam
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: What to bring for Work Permit in Vietnam **Update** |
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| clayrview wrote: |
So if it says Charles S. Smith on your degree, it needs to say Charles S. Smith on your police check.
Got it??????????
Cheers |
This is absolutey true. Khong sao. To the letter. You can fix name variations via DHL once you get here (about $200+ US) or take care it now.
I've just generally spelled my first, middle, and last names on EVERYTHING. No problem so far. |
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jb0072009
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
Posts: 127
Location: Saigon
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| Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| Oh My God wrote: |
Everytime I see somebody post the "new definitive answer" to the WP situation - I just have to chuckle and think to myself:
An honest attempt to help other people BUT just another newby...
After living here some 5+ years, I can truly say that making laws and enforcing those laws in VN has been as diversified as there are the number of expats here, in my experience.
For every person that has a good reaction to the laws - there seems to be the same or more whom haven't. Let us NOT try to associate Western Values to a separately developed Society. With the membership in organizations like the WTO and loans from organization like the World Bank, we'll start to see changes more in line with International Values BUT that is developing and not without some reluctance or resentment to those changes.
Personally, I liked the older system better - even with the corruption and misinformation. Then, the trick was in knowing the correct person to pay off. This is STILL true but everybody is scared now about getting caught. |
You are 100% correct that the Vietnamese authorities do not interpret nor enforce rules and regulations uniformily. Also I like the old system of "souvenier" better as well because then at least you knew what to do. Now you are at the mercy of some bureaucrat whose interpretation may not be the official one. Still most schools DO require a notarized TEFL/CELTA but the government itself does not. Supply and demand. Right now there is a surplus of teachers so schools are getting very picky on teacher hires |
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clayrview
Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 62
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 4:18 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Oh My God"]Everytime I see somebody post the "new definitive answer" to the WP situation - I just have to chuckle and think to myself:
An honest attempt to help other people BUT just another newby...quote]
That's just unhelpful. I may be a "newbie" to teaching in Vietnam, but not to teaching or ESL, and not to the issues of getting a WP. And hey, if I had had people giving me whatever advice they could I would appreciate the effort.
It's not really unreasonable to assume that people would benefit to hear from someone actually GOING THROUGH the process, rather than hearsay. By people giving examples of how they got their WP's in the current climate, we can all have a better picture of what's going on.
Sure I could say, 'Doesn't really matter, Vietnam is just corrupt and it depends from school to school, and who you know, so you might as well just forget about it".
But I'm pretty sure what Dave's is all about- IS trying to help people.
Sure WP issues will vary across the board in Vietnam, and I'm sure some people will be able to get WP's with different documentation depending on a school's connections.
However, for people like me who like to be safe rather than sorry, is who this post is directed towards.
I would say, get as much notarized, organized as you can before leaving for Vietnam to avoid limiting your choices in schools, and helping the WP process go more smoothly. If you have the chance to, why wouldn't you? |
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Oh My God
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 273
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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clayrview wrote:
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| That's just unhelpful. |
Sorry if I ruffled your feathers, it wasn't my intent!
But I've got to disagree, I think it IS helpful to let everyone know that there are exceptions to the rule, law, and enforcement.
Example, I know a teacher that recently got a WP by showing his notarized copy of his Diploma and Criminal report ONLY.
Another Example, I know another teacher that recently got a WP and he'd only graduated from High School but he did have to do everything else you talked about.
For myself, I had to do the whole 9 yards and a little more for the first WP that I got but only a fraction of that when I changed schools. It seems that once you're in the system it gets easier as long as your ex-employer and your new employer cooperate.
The schools are the ones whom make the difference for you AND have the connections or not. Exceptions can be made through these connections and lubrication ($) is fairly normal.
But yes, clayrview is also right! When coming to Vietnam as a newby, you should use the old saying: PREPARE FOR THE WORST THEN HOPE AND PRAY FOR THE BEST!
But be fair clayrview, what part of "an honest attempt to help other people" is insulting to you? |
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