Job Discussion Forums

[poompui]

i currently teach in china and work in two different schools. one school is a public elementary school and the students never fail to bring a smile to my face. i also teach in a language school and the students there, most of them have well off parents, are incredibly rude. i would have to say it stems from the parents and their views towards education. to some, unfortunaely, education is something which can be paid for, just like their bmw's. i have also taught in south korea and thailand and in the end would agree that chinese students are more enjoyable to work with.

[JDYoung]

I've taught in uni and company classes in China, language school in Turkey and language school with company classes in the Czech Republic. Students who want to learn English do well. Those who are only in class because their parents or bosses want them to be there do poorly. The country doesn't matter. In general, students who don't care about learning English are less disruptive of the class in China, most disruptive in Turkey in my limited experience.

[raven15]

The students are more respectful and spend more time studying, but if better student means the same as better learner I couldn't say they are better. Suppose that a Chinese student takes a standardized test and gets a 3% better grade than an American student. But spending 100% more time studying every day for six years for a 3% gain would be a failure in my book, so I can't say they are better.

The institution matters a lot, it is almost impossible to fail or change their majors (in a university), that can really damage the motivation of many students.

[LongShiKong]

Good point, raven15.

A few years ago, I spoke to a German exchange student who claimed he'd only studied English for 5 years but like most Europeans, was near native in proficiency. How much of that can you attribute to imported pop culture? The scant number of TEFL postings available at any given time in Germany gives clues as to how they achieve that: professionally qualified German English teachers who may have studied abroad (?). Here in China, if the goal were really English proficiency then given their high IQs (as I'd posted about earlier), they'd definitely be doing the same, and even more so for cost effectiveness. But, as everyone knows, it's really about face--ours and theirs.

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IELTS Test-taker Performance 2009 http://www.ielts.org/researchers/analysis_of_test_data/test_taker_performance_2009.aspx

I took 2009's IELTS General Training results into Excel to verify my assumption that Asians specifically have the lowest Listening to Reading and S to W advantage based upon a heavily text-oriented education and culture. Sure enough, even UAE with the lowest overall score has a much better Speaking to Reading advantage at 1.24 compared to China with the lowest at -0.2.

[LarssonCrew]

I know you're asking about studying etc. but a few things I noticed relating from Chinese to English university kids.

Firstly, the kids here are far far more sheepish. If a question was asked in the UK at uni, then there would in a class of 30 be at least 20 different opinions on something, you'll notice here, if you ask one question, like 'who's the best basketball player' one person will say 'Kobe', and if you say 'who agrees?' the class will ALL slowly raise their hand, no individuality at all.

Secondly, far less able to be independent. You have 24 year olds who say 'I cannot drink beer because my parents would disagree' when they are thousands of miles from home, have their own money [although provided by mummy and daddy], and are afraid of what their parents might say. Needless to say, the difference between independence here is highlighted by the dorms being locked at 11. 'What do you do if you go to a club?' 'We have to book into a hotel or go to the internet bar all night.' What? In the UK you know your kids will go to university, get horrendously drunk, probably take drugs, not turn up to some lesson because they are too drunk or hungover, learn to cook some dishes, maybe sleep around a bit etc. Here some are so 'breastfed', i.e. living off their parents money, still being wrapped in cotton wool that they don't have any independence, can't fix a problem, run to authority as SOON as there is any problem, and half cannot even use a washing machine, oh well.

Having said that, the students who do turn up to a non mandatory English oral class usually are far more active and enthusiastic than I was in university in topics which bored me. Although I try to make the games and lessons enjoyable, if you ask them 'why would you choose these items to take on holiday', for instance, they'll REALLY put some thought into it, although as pointed above, most will just listen to the most influential member of the group!

[LanGuTou]

There are many, many differences that I can point to but one of the outstanding factors for me is lack of motivation and direction.

I have, for the past four years, taught Chinese post-graduate students. These people are doing Master Degrees or PhD. Even at such an advanced stage of their education, the majority of them have not given any thought as to their future career path or how to get ahead. For example, it would surely be expected of someone pursuing a PhD. in a science related subject to have mapped out what careers they should be aiming for.

I can only assume that such a lack of direction also negatively impacts on study attainment.

[sharpe88]

You will find it is not that they lack individuality, they are mainly just shy. If you find methods to make them comfortable speaking (like first have them discuss in small groups or pairs), you will find a lot more going on than you expected.


Oh and I'm finding northern Chinese are a lot less diligent than southern Chinese...

[zootown]

[LongShiKong]

[waxwing]

[Kipling]

Tougn Love all the way
Undergraduates need motivation as they are fulfilling their parents failed education/ambitions and dreams
Graduates need guidance and less discipline but are more focused and have more say/independence in what they want to do. Maintaining motivation is less of a problem if you know(and you should do) how to maintain motivation.
Compared to Turkish students they are less well read or bolshie but more outgoing that thais in class. Compared to Indonesians they are more industrious in that they will meet deadlines if compelled(tough love)
I am writing about undergraduate and pre master students so this applies to what I know and of course we should NEVER make over generalizations about anything but after 18 years teaching in 5 different countries at all levels I have to say that Chinese students, though like every other student worldwide they like to gain an unfair advantage(heal thyself dear reader) they are.....................













........................................Not Bad...................................






Every day I am Mr K

PS Queen of Hearts......you are spot on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[la dolce vita]

china has this stupid thing about working hours

i tell students again and again that you can't just do that. the dastardly french have 9 to 5 with 2 hour lunch breaks and siestas but they are still better workers than chinese because they actually do 5 or 6 hours of work a day. chinese work 12 hour days, but only get 4 hours work done because they are too tired

it's more about control than anything

[El Chupacabra]

[mrwslee003]

Most of my teaching was done in Canada and the last 2 years in China.

I found the core student population pretty well the same, with the Chinese students having an edge on "more respect for their teachers".
There was a minority of students in Canada who had problems in the public system. For whatever reason, they caused "pains" for the system. They challenged the system, the teachers and their parents too, I am sure.

Then, there was the minority of students in the Chinese system whom I call "the little emperors". These little emperors are the product of the new affluence and the 1 child policy, which is only my guess. They too caused problems for the teachers because they feel they had no need to conform. Money or Daddy will pay for the solutions for whatever problems they caused. Until they met up with my principal, a Canuck, who sent several home, one way.

There, that is my 2 bits.
Cheers!