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SED
Joined: 29 May 2010
Posts: 9
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 Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:04 pm Post subject: Why are all the salaries in China so low? |
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I have been looking at jobs in Asia to spend a year away from home to collect my thoughts. China seems interesting however the salaries are ridiculously low.
Why would anyone even consider Mainland China when Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong pay so much more? |
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drjtrekker
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 251
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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I think there is a long thread about this somewhere...  |
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nickpellatt
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 1522
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Cost of living may have some bearing? I had a colleague who left his job in China to go to Hong Kong...he had been renting a room for 300 month in China...and reckons it will be 6000 a month in HK. |
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MisterButtkins
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Posts: 1221
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| You don't exactly need a lot of qualifications to get a job in China. I know people from non-English speaking countries who didn't go to college who work here. Also, 19 year old British kids fresh out of high school who teach high school. |
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ShanghaiSurprise
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 47
Location: Korea...soon China
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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Salaries are meant to allow the workers to live comfortably as a reward for doing their jobs.
In China, the salaries that appear low will still allow someone to live comfortably.
Will it allow them to travel internationally, buy luxury clothing brands, own foreign cars, and eat western food while going out to western bars? Probably that's a lot harder.
But your salary will give you a lot more than many Chinese earn... and that's where you're working.
Some examples, comparing to Seoul, Korea.
A bottle of Tsingtao beer is going to cost you about 4 RMB in China. The exact same bottle in Seoul, Korea is going to cost you at least 15 RMB.
Massages in China are very cheap. Massages in Seoul are not.
Housing in China is cheap. Housing in Seoul is ridiculously expensive.
Food in Seoul is beyond expensive, especially vegetables recently. A watermelon costs over 100 RMB, and a nice big apple will be around 10 RMB. Go check the prices of those in China and you'll notice a big difference.
If you don't need to save a ton of money in USD (for example), or buy western food and clothing all the time, then your salary in China will let you live really well. And if you happen to get a job with a higher-than-average salary, then you're probably going to find you can really enjoy your life, including all the western products, and still have money to save.
Also, travelling within China isn't that expensive, and you can probably find good deals if you are flexible on where and when to travel. |
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Zero
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 1402
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Since China is still developing, they can't afford to pay any higher. But you can enjoy the Chinese culture. |
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LanGuTou
Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 621
Location: Shandong
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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Of course Chinese universities could pay FT's more! But why would they?
If you open your eyes to the real facts, every FT in every Chinese university is expendable. Some are better than others, some are liked more than others, some are respected more than others but the moment any FT walks through the door, they will quickly be forgotten by the administration staff.
The Chinese have their view on economics and business. Something I don't agree with but cheap always comes before quality which leaves little for negotiation purposes. Within a limited band, you ether accept what is offered or walk! They do it their way.
Private schools are locked into the fact that they need a white face to attract students. You have a little more negotiation power in the private sector. |
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The Ever-changing Cleric
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 1523
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:21 am Post subject: Re: Why are all the salaries in China so low? |
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| SED wrote: |
I have been looking at jobs in Asia to spend a year away from home to collect my thoughts. China seems interesting however the salaries are ridiculously low.
Why would anyone even consider Mainland China when Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong pay so much more? |
i posted the following in another thread earlier this year. It should clear up your misconceptions about China and the "low" salaries.
| SnoopBot wrote: |
China does not pay the big bucks for ESL teachers, they don't even pay the big bucks for certified teachers with an advanced degree.
Korea is the top market for ESL, China doesn't even compare.
I hate to tell you this, but Korea for pay is a much better deal |
I've worked in both korea and china and I always find these comparisons interesting. let's have a look at the standard esl jobs in the two countries:
A. Working Hours/Salary
typical university esl job in china:
1. 14-16 hours per week and between 5000-6000RMB/month.
2. That's ~ $750-$880/month.
3. On an hourly basis - RMB78-94/$12-14.
typical hagwon job in korea:
1. 30 hours per week and about 2.1 million won/month.
2. That's ~1800/month.
3. On an hourly basis about 17,500KRW/$15.
B. Some Intangibles
1. Freedom in the class. Most schools in china give you a timetable, a textbook and send you on your way. You can adapt the teaching material as you see fit and in many cases don't need to follow the textbook every class, if at all. if you find most of your students are worse than expected, dump the textbook and move on. as long as you show up every day on time, no hassles from anyone.
in korea you typically have to show up one hour early each day (not included in the 30 hours of class time). in some of these hagwons, the school owner is right there in the school, visits the classes, gives "advice" and (not being an education professional him/herself) often just gets in your way. we had to use the textbook every day, every class.
2. Free time and Outside Activities. Almost all university jobs in china offer copious amounts of free time, most people dont know what to do with it all. that includes two holiday periods of nearly two months each, with pay. For some, that free time translates into more travel, taking up one of many hobbies (tai chi, photography, et al), or finishing a degree, among other things. And while some Chinese cities have little character, others do, and the country itself has unlimited travel opportunities for those with free time.
Comparatively speaking, Korea has almost zilch to see (it is a small country though). I managed to visit Busan, Ulsan, and Seoul during my time there and they were devoid of anything but shops, restaurants, bars and shopping centres. Natural sites, parks, green space, beaches etc are few, and not easy to get to and enjoy with the limited free time in Korea.
At a Korean hagwon, you get one or two weeks of paid holiday and you get those once you finish your contract. and there are almost no days off for the entire length of the contract, other than weekends (unless your school opens on saturday and then there's those nearly useless Saturday morning meetings held once or twice a month.
3. Opportunities to earn extra money. Those working at uni jobs in china have plenty of opportunity to make money outside their real job. While this may be prohibited in some contracts, most schools know it happens and ignore it. other more up to date contracts state that outside work isn't prohibited but that the teacher assumes responsibility for any of their outside activities. Once you've networked a little bit a FT in China can easily add up to 50% to their monthly salary via private work.
Private work is illegal in Korea and violators are actively sought out and punished. The opportunities for private work are far less in Korea than in China.
| SnoopBot wrote: |
| Korea weeds out the riff-raff with their stricter teaching credential requirements. |
While they may have stricter requirements for getting the E-2 work visa in Korea (notarized copy of a degree to the consulate, not much more strict) than they do for getting a Z visa in China, that hardly weeds out the riffraff. Korea attracts mostly those under 35yoa and if the people I worked with and met in the bars on weekends were any indication, plenty of them have serious problems - mostly alcohol and an inability to get along with others, with a bit of drug use as well - I think that qualifies as riffraff. btw, fake degree holders and illegal ESL teachers existed in Korea when i was there, i'm sure they still do.
China has a higher proportion of older, more mature, and more experienced teachers that don't suffer the same problems. There are still plenty of losers in China, but in my estimation its no worse here than in Korea.
To summarize, while Korea may look better on the surface (higher monthly salary) a little bit of digging belies the myth that its the "top market for ESL." And anyone who says "China doesn't even compare" isn't aware of the Korean ESL workplace situation. Any FT in China, with a little bit of initiative, can do almost as well financially as anyone in Korea, and still have the other advantages that China has over Korea (which in my opinion, is almost everything else). |
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living&learning
Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 245
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:25 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
A bottle of Tsingtao beer is going to cost you about 4 RMB in China. The exact same bottle in Seoul, Korea is going to cost you at least 15 RMB.
Massages in China are very cheap. Massages in Seoul are not.
Housing in China is cheap. Housing in Seoul is ridiculously expensive. |
A bottle of Tsingtao is poison, and best avoided. Drink better quality alcohol if you want to save you health from a battering.
Massages aren't cheap in China (unless they're from a friendly date).
Housing in China is ridiculously expensive, if you consider the quality of the structure you're living in. |
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Zero
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 1402
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:34 am Post subject: |
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| Massages are very cheap in China. What makes you think they aren't? |
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living&learning
Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 245
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:45 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Massages are very cheap in China. What makes you think they aren't? |
Not in my city they aren't. Foot massages are 50 kuai. Full body massage 100 or more. Thai style 150 or more. Oil massage 200 or more. No kinky stuff at the end.
I prefer the Thai style and oil massages, and while that is cheaper than back home, relative to my uni salary it isn't that cheap.
I live in Xiamen, btw. |
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Daphne
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 119
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:32 am Post subject: |
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Although there are countless posts on Dave's about SK versus the PRC, Cleric's just might be the best.
One con of SK that was not mentioned was the fairly new hassle of the criminal background check from one's home country needed for an E-2. |
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evolving81
Joined: 04 May 2009
Posts: 135
Location: Tampa
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the detailed post. This makes me rethink teaching in China. I see the job ads and I also thought the pay in China was pretty low, but I suppose compared to the cost of living perhaps it will be a better experience. I mean who really wants to teach 30 hours a week!??! I don't.  |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Never mind. |
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ShanghaiSurprise
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 47
Location: Korea...soon China
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| living&learning wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Massages are very cheap in China. What makes you think they aren't? |
Not in my city they aren't. Foot massages are 50 kuai. Full body massage 100 or more. Thai style 150 or more. Oil massage 200 or more. No kinky stuff at the end.
I prefer the Thai style and oil massages, and while that is cheaper than back home, relative to my uni salary it isn't that cheap.
I live in Xiamen, btw. |
50 kuai for a foot massage? For how long? Sounds cheap to me.
A regular 1 hour massage in Seoul will cost you about 300 - 350 rmb probably. Last time I was in China I went to a really nice massage place, and got a 2-hour massage (foot and full body) for 110 rmb. That would have cost at least 500 rmb in Seoul... and probably more. I went to a higher-quality massage place for 130 rmb per hour... that would have been 400 at least in Seoul. I went to a low-quality (small, but clean) massage place and paid 30 rmb for 90 minutes... even that would have been 300 rmb in Seoul.
How long have you been in China? Possibly you are forgetting what things cost elsewhere? 
And of course, to be fair, none of my prices would have been the elite super expensive places in Seoul... where who knows what things cost.
Regarding housing...
I'm in Seoul right now... paying 6000 rmb for a small 25 meter-squared studio room, including utilities and internet. Oh, and I had to put down a deposit of $5000 USD just to be lucky enough to have a rate of 6000 rmb per month. If I hadn't put down $5000 USD, then I'd be paying 7200 rmb per month.
And yes... that is 25 meters squared.... just a studio...and not in a rich area, but in a busy student area near a top university.
Still think your prices are expensive? |
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