Job Discussion Forums

[choudoufu]

maybe not equal, but close - reasonable. i wouldn't necessarily say a person would be stupid to accept a job that doesn't fully cover rental costs. after all, i'm not here to get rich. there are many reasons to teach in china. except for a small minority, money is not one of those reasons. so my take home pay could be $600 instead of $700 per month? not really a big concern if the rest of the package is suitable.

you might as well say i'm stupid to accept a teaching position that pays half what i'd earn flipping burgers at mickey d's. (pay would have been 5000)

[hot_water_hillbilly]

[choudoufu]

you've read karen's post. there is no teacher housing available, and a decent apartment will run 2000-3000. the school will pay 750, but they admit to me that housing will 'probably' cost 1500. they said the buses take less than half an hour. no mention of the 60-90 minute commute, nor the dirt roads. they did tell me i could live in the 'village' close to the school. they didn't tell me the village was a woodyard, a 30-minute muddy trek to school. i was led to believe the campus opens this year, so they have no experience with ft's finding apartments.

not knowing of karen's experience, i told them last week i could accept the positon if the university were to rent the apartment, and have it ready by the time i arrived. i haven't heard back. maybe the bandits got 'em.

in other housing news, i have a shot at a uni job in yunnan with very nice on-campus housing, with the option of living off-campus and receiving a housing allowance more than adequate for a luxury apartment nearby.
pay is lower, hours the same. nice location. no bandits.

[themanymoonsofjupiter]

a shame, by the way, that the university is no longer located in wuzhishan. a far superiour place to sanya, that's certain. in fact, i'd almost certainly pick wuzhishan over any other place in hainan. i know that doesn't help you.

[KarenB]

OK, since we are talking Qiongzhou U, I had better give you a fuller scoop on the job, and what to expect. If you want to verify this, ask the uni to give you the phone numbers or email of the current FTs.

My advice is to run the other way -- as fast as you can. There were 5 FTs at the school last year. None are renewing their contracts.

The school is out in the middle of nowhere -- there is absolutely nothing out there except water buffalo, and a smelly fish fertilizer factory -- to do anything, you have to face that dreary commute into town, and the bus stops running about 9 p.m. Sometimes earlier.

The uni went through 4 FAOs last year -- it was utter chaos. The most recent one now has the FTs salaries deposited directly into her personal account, and then then (when she feels like it) transfers that to your account. She will find all sorts or reasons (or none at all) to hold back parts of your salary.

FA0 #2 (who left on maternity leave) is going to be back in place in the Fall. She's a young woman who has absolutely no clue how to do her job, and no interest in learning how. None of the Chinese staff like her much, but she's got the job because she's cozy with the president. Nuff said.

When we accepted the job last May, we wanted to go ahead and get contracts and get our Z visas. But the Dean said that they didn't do contracts until the actual academic year began. I was really nervous about this, but I had known this Dean for a number of years (I taught at another school in Hainan for 7 years). So, I decided to trust him. Big mistake. We didn't get contracts until the National Day holiday, and then the salary and airfare were not what had been agreed upon in negotiations. The FAO took off to get married, leaving all the FTs with no resident permits or Z visas. Two of the FTs had their old visas run out and had to pay out of their pockets to get emergency extensions. It was just utter chaos.

The contract is for 16 hours, but the school has this little trick of giving you double classes. Say, you're teaching writing. You walk into class expecting 45 students or so, and are faced with 2 classes in one large classroom -- 90 students, and you've got to score all those essays and term papers!! But you're only getting paid for 2 hours.

The area is really dangerous -- there is a village next to the campus full of men who basically do nothing but gamble, do drugs, and prey on the students and teachers at the university. I already mentioned that 3 FTs (including myself) were physically attacked in 2 separate incidents in broad daylight -- on our way to clas. We fought our attackers off, and I was ok, just some bruises, but the other 2 FTs had to go to hospital for treatment. Countless students have also been beaten, robbed and raped. One music major will never play the piano again, her hands were so badly broken. A girl was raped this past month and committed suicide. In the nearby town of Lizhigou, a man came to the aid of a woman who was being attacked by the bandits and had his arm hacked off.

The school does nothing to ensure the safety of teachers and students. They didn't even post a guard at the front gate!! We were told at the time that we were hired that the school had a shuttle bus that ran students and teachers into town 3 times a day, but that never materialized.

Now, it turns out that the housing that the school was constructing for teachers is "illegal" -- the Chinese teachers can't get mortgages for apartments because they can't get the titles. I don't know how this will affect future housing for FTs -- they might just abandon the building project.

Anyway, please please contact the current FTs to verify what I've said -- I promise you, I am not making this up.

[KarenB]

OH, that 750 RMB that Qiongzhou U is promising includes the utilities -- you get 500 for rent and 250 for utilities.

Sanya is pretty hot most of the year, so unless you can take the heat or unless you can get an apartment on an upper floor and catch the breeze, you're going to want to run your AC. If you run it just at night and nap time after lunch that will run you about 10 to 15 RMB a day for electric.

Basically, you can expect your utility bill to be higher than the 250 they're giving you.

And your rent will also be much higher. To live in downtown Sanya, for an older apartment, but close to all the conveniences -- the market and restaurants and nightlife, you can expect to pay between 3000 to 4000 a month. To live on Jingjinlin Road (on the outskirts of town, and about 30 minutes commute to school once bus 3 shows up), a newer 2 bedroom runs around 3000 a month (there's not much older housing -- they've torn all the old housing down to build new high rises). Plus you have to pay a management fee. And a lot of these places want you to pay 6 months to 1 year in advance.

Remember, that the school isn't timely in paying your salary and housing allowance. This makes it a bit awkward getting the rents paid on time.

[drjtrekker]

KarenB,

If this Uni is right out of hell as u say....why aren't you starting a new thread to warn any potential FT about this place?
Not everyone will read this particular thread, and I would sure want to know about this place since it seems so incredulous that this is happening.

Just my Opinion.
trek

[LanGuTou]

KarenB:

I find something about your account hard to get my head around.

You say that you taught at another school in Hainan for seven years and also knew the dean personally.

You must have, therefore, known something about the location and the public securiy issues that you have raised.

Why on God's earth did you choose to go there?

[KarenB]

Good questions. I knew most of the Deans at various unis in Hainan because I was the Question Master for the CCTV Speech Contest for a number of years. So...I knew the Dean in a social setting.

In all honesty, most of my problems with the uni were not with the Dean (who I believe is a decent guy) they were with the multiple FAOs and the safety problem. The only issue I had with him was the double classes, and that was something we were negotiating in a friendly manner.

I knew a lot of FTs who had taught at QU, but it was at the OLD campus -- the one in Wuzhishan, and they all reported that they'd had a great experience there. Well, not only was it the old campus, but apparently there was a significant turnover in administration at QU when they moved to the new campus. But I wasn't aware of that. I SHOULD have contacted the current FTs, but I was stupid and didn't.

I would like to start a thread but I'm not sure about the rules. Are we only permitted to answer someone else's post questioning a specific uni, or can we start a thread with mostly negative info? I did post on a couple other sites that were specifically for reviews. But I don't want to cause Dave's to get banned in China...like Nick's did.

[Non Sequitur]

It's a bit off the point, but we are seeing a lot of universities and colleges moving to the city margins in China.
I expect it's because they realise they're sitting on very valuable real estate.
I can think of two outfits in Dalian (Medical U being one) who've moved to Lushun. This is the naval base out at what used to be Port Arthur and around 50 minutes away by bus.
Given Chinese organisational skills and the general 'stuff the staff and students' attitude, having everything ready is unlikely.

[A'Moo]

[KarenB]

Yes, Wuzhishan was definitely off the beaten track, but the teachers I know who worked there had a good experience.

The FAO who'd been in charge for 7 years (and apparently was really good) resigned in August 2009, and this started the downward spiral of inept, and sometimes dishonest FAOs.

Apparently a lot of the Wuzhishan teachers and admin did not come to Lizhigou (for reasons that are now readily apparent). Almost everyone I met (with the except of the dean) are relatively new hires -- only with the school for 1 or 2 years. And a lot aren't planning to stay -- especially now with the teacher housing being "illegal" -- I really feel sorry for them, because they had all invested down payments, but can't get mortgages for apartments.

Yes, you're right about the unis moving out to the outskirts of town -- I'm not clear on what the logic for this is -- why build a completely new campus out in the middle of nowhere, when you have a fine one right in town, close to all the conveniences. 3 of the unis/colleges in Haikou did this -- fortunately they're all next to each other, and there's an infrastructure getting built up for the students -- shops, restaurants, etc.

Anyway, if anyone knows if I can start a thread on QU without getting Dave banned in China, let me know

[drjtrekker]

[LanGuTou]

[choudoufu]

i sent an email to the school asking about some what has been
discussed here; it's been a few days and no response.

guess i'll have to take that job in kunming with lower pay and benefits.