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Anyone pull a runner before getting on the plane?
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think EC Cleric that transgressions are looked at next time you get involved with the system. Failing to register at a lodging is not a SWAT matter.
For the OP 'the next time' could be when his new school attempt to get him residence.
My query to OP is 'did the letter he signed refer to the contract?'
ie 'by signing this letter Mr XYZ accepts and the (school) undertakes to provide those items appearing in the normal FE Admin contract'.
This would link to the break fee issue and OP may be able to clear the air that way.
Best come clean with the new school. They don't want to lose OP now, I'm sure. They can probably do some wrangling with the old school.
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choudoufu



Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry, i wasn't clear. the consensus seems to be that the chinese authorities would be unable to develop and/or maintain a list of problem teachers.

the fact is that they are able to maintain lists if they feel it worthwhile. in my case i went to register with the police, they matched my passport number and my name to the list of those who had supposedly not handled registration procedures properly. there's no reason they couldn't tweak the psb software to flag unwanted teachers.

and it wasn't that it took them a year to notify me. it was that i was trying to re-enter the system, coming back into the country. and there i was -- flagged.
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Teatime of Soul



Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 905

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can be sure of one thing, it will be much easier for the school to hire your replacement the sooner you inform them you've had a change of heart.

No, they wont be happy, but realistically there is little they either can, nor would be inclined to do. Especially if you were up front about it.

If it is mutual face saving you are looking for, just tell them, "I'm afraid my doctor has advised me that my ongoing health issues prohibit extended travel overseas."

They won't push it, and it won't come back to bite you and they should be grateful for the heads up.

Or, if you want to be straight up, just tell them the truth - you changed your mind and won't be answering further email about it, but you wanted to give them the courtesy of as much advance notice as possible. They might grumble but they know you did them a favor.

Cheers.
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Zero



Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 1402

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

choudoufu wrote:
sorry, i wasn't clear. the consensus seems to be that the chinese authorities would be unable to develop and/or maintain a list of problem teachers.

the fact is that they are able to maintain lists if they feel it worthwhile. in my case i went to register with the police, they matched my passport number and my name to the list of those who had supposedly not handled registration procedures properly. there's no reason they couldn't tweak the psb software to flag unwanted teachers.

and it wasn't that it took them a year to notify me. it was that i was trying to re-enter the system, coming back into the country. and there i was -- flagged.


I have never registered with the police while on a tourist L visa. Is that a problem?
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Miles Smiles



Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1294
Location: Heebee Jeebee

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone pull a runner before getting on the plane? Reply with quote

kungfupanda wrote:
So I was offered a great job at a university the day after I signed with another school. They are waiting until I arrive to sign the contract but I did sign some letter saying that it is legally enforceable. What happens if I blow them off? Can they prevent me from working in China? What is the worse that could happen?


Have you received the letter of invitation from the first school, and have you applied for the visa using the the letter of invitation from the first school? If so, that might work against you.

If all that you have done is to sign a letter of agreement, then it seems that you should have no problems. A fully-executed contract (one which bears your signature and the FAO's signature) plus a visa secured using that school's letter of invitation might complicate things. This is conjecture on my part. Results may vary, the large print giveth etc., etc. ...

If all that is involved is a letter of commitment signed by you, you're probably okay.

So, you found a better job. You have a down-to-earth moral dilemma. Ask yourself: WWWD? What Would Willie [Nelson] Do?
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Teatime of Soul



Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 905

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Be quite aware of the following:

The SAFEA contract must now be signed to obtain the work permit and letter of invitation. This is being done specifically for the purpose of smacking liars and cheaters around a bit.

If you sign the SAFEA contract and return it the school and then skip out before even coming, say, to accept a different job, the school and SAFEA now have the authority to hold you to the signed contract and prevent you from obtaining a job in another jurisdiction.

Incorrect. Every. Single. Assertion.

Pure fiction as any sort of general rule, and flatly impossible as a specific threat.

Caveat Lector, While all answers are responses, but not all responses are answers.


Last edited by Teatime of Soul on Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Miles Smiles



Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1294
Location: Heebee Jeebee

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teatime,

It would seem that SAFEA would and should have the authority to impose sanctions against those who don't show up for a job. If I were in the OP's shoes, I'd probably be reluctant to accept a position elsewhere in China, no matter what anyone told me.

If your assertions are correct, and assuming that SAFEA DOES actively pursue sanctions against no-shows, why does it not respond to schools' flagrant violations of contract? ESL/EFL forums are full of schools that have been "black listed" by the forum for egregious violations of SAFEA contracts. There are probably even more instances of the SAFEA not even responding to foreign teachers' complaints. Are you saying that contractual obligations are a one-way street that favor only the schools? This seems to be the case.
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Teatime of Soul



Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 905

PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Miles Smiles,

I apologize. I was quoting some incorrect information posted up-thread. I fixed it and it now correctly shows my response.

SAFEA does not pursue no-shows. They currently have neither the mission, manpower or technical resources to do so. Local SAFEA offices are limited in scope and resources. Even though they are part of a national organization, they do not have nation-wide resources.

Cheers.
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China

PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TT o S
The corollary is, does SAFEA persue schools that break contract undertakings?
Maybe this should be a new thread, but interested to know if there is case law that would suport an FT making a complaint.
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hot_water_hillbilly



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 97

PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:35 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone pull a runner before getting on the plane? Reply with quote

Miles Smiles wrote:
Have you received the letter of invitation from the first school, and have you applied for the visa using the the letter of invitation from the first school? If so, that might work against you.

If all that you have done is to sign a letter of agreement, then it seems that you should have no problems. A fully-executed contract (one which bears your signature and the FAO's signature) plus a visa secured using that school's letter of invitation might complicate things. This is conjecture on my part. Results may vary, the large print giveth etc., etc. ...

If all that is involved is a letter of commitment signed by you, you're probably okay.

So, you found a better job. You have a down-to-earth moral dilemma. Ask yourself: WWWD? What Would Willie [Nelson] Do?


Our school just recently hired a new teacher. When we went to obtain the Work Permit and Letter of Invitation, they refused to process the papers. We were required to submit the signed copy of the SAFEA Contract of Employment.

We've never been asked to do this before. It's always been accepted to use just the addendum or appendix added to the SAFEA contract.

So, we asked why and they specifically said that they are now considering that a dually signed SAFEA contract is an absolute commitment. Further questioning said that they will in fact keep track of those not honoring the contracts and will not issue new credentials to that particular teacher if there is an outstanding contract term left to be fulfilled.

These are people we've used for years. I've been in this city for 5 years and know the "authorities" on a so-so level.

I'm THRILLED to see such a process. However, it can clearly be abused. What would stop someone from simply signing a person's name on it fraudulently...
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