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lookingforworkinasia
Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 23
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:50 am Post subject: Future in Teaching |
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Hello,
I apologize if this is bordering on topics covered in other threads, but I was hoping for some input.
After a few years of teaching EFL here in Korea, I will be attending grad school in the fall. I will finish a M.S.S. degree at a top tier University in Europe, and will be in my early 30's after I finish.
After, I would like to return to Asia and teach here for a couple of more years, and I'm wondering what kind of options would be open for someone like me. Although my Master's degree wouldn't be related to TEFL, and wouldn't be from an English speaking Uni, I have a Bachelor's in English Language and Lit. from an English speaking University in Canada. I mention that because while EFL isn't really a subject of interest for me, I enjoy teaching enough to put up with a subject I'm not really passionate about. Obviously if I find a position teaching my major, that would take precedent.
How competitive do you think these qualifications will make me? Since I'll be spending most of the next little while in Europe, I'm not expecting to have a great social network in the area, so I'll be relying a lot on my resume to get me a decent gig.
I'm not so concerned about countries, although I would be most interested in working in Taiwan. I love that place! |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:55 am Post subject: |
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So you'll be in your early thirties with an unrelated BA and unrelated MA?
No teaching quals. So, you'd be able to get entry level work in the sorts of places that let college grads without quals teach English. Korea, China, and Japan all do this- I don't know about others.
Your experience and age (ie not 22) would probably help you into the better entry level positions, but as far as I can see, that's about it.
Best,
Justin |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: Future in Teaching |
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| lookingforworkinasia wrote: |
| After, I would like to return to Asia and teach here for a couple of more years |
Is that a typo (here vs. there)? Your avatar says you are in Canada.
| Quote: |
| , and I'm wondering what kind of options would be open for someone like me. Although my Master's degree wouldn't be related to TEFL, and wouldn't be from an English speaking Uni, I have a Bachelor's in English Language and Lit. from an English speaking University in Canada. |
As far as Japan is concerned, you're still considered entry level material to most employers. ALT or conversation school.
| Quote: |
| I mention that because while EFL isn't really a subject of interest for me, I enjoy teaching enough to put up with a subject I'm not really passionate about. Obviously if I find a position teaching my major, that would take precedent. |
You come to an EFL forum and declare you aren't interested in teaching it, but that you would "put up with it"? Be prepared for some nasty comebacks.
Does this mean you want to teach English lit? Very unlikely unless you speak the language well or stay here long.
| Quote: |
| How competitive do you think these qualifications will make me? |
In Japan, not all that much, especially if you show your attitude in the interview. Be careful.
| Quote: |
| Since I'll be spending most of the next little while in Europe, I'm not expecting to have a great social network in the area, so I'll be relying a lot on my resume to get me a decent gig. |
Again, as far as Japan is concerned, you aren't going to get hired by the vast majority of employers just on a resume. You're going to have to be here physically, or apply to the few that interview in your home country.
Just out of curiosity, what do you consider a "decent gig"? |
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lookingforworkinasia
Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 23
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 2:10 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the feedback Justin. I appreciate it.
Glenski, to respond to some of your comments.
I am in Asia. I haven't thought about what my profile says since I got here. Thanks for pointing that out.
In regards to not being interested in teaching EFL, I understand how it comes across as rude. I don't mean it as a show of disrespect to those who enjoy it or teach it for a living. It's just not a subject I am passionate about. I would say the same thing about math or science.
I don't think teaching English lit is an achievable career goal for me (even though I would probably really enjoy it), but I would be interested in teaching something like English composition or other specialized fields of English.
In terms of a decent gig, it would depend on a lot of things. Type of institution, students, reputability of the administration, living conditions, etc. Since I'll probably be interested in finding work right after school I won't be super picky, but I'm not particularly well informed about what opportunities will be like outside of Korea so I'm curious what others think. |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 2:36 am Post subject: |
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I'll second Glenski's comments that you should leave your attitude at the door.
Interviewer (I) So, what makes you think you'd be a good teacher?
You (Y) Well, I mean, I really don't want to teach, but I'm sure I can do a good job...
I I see, you don't really want to do it... (looks at pile of resumes on his desk)
Y Do you think I can get some time off to see my family in the summer?
I Time off? (already mentally tossing your resume in the bin)  |
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jimi1999uk
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:28 am Post subject: |
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| Justin Trullinger wrote: |
So you'll be in your early thirties with an unrelated BA and unrelated MA?
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Is a BA in English Language+Lit counted as an unrelated degree? Wow.
What would be be the best degrees to have? |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| lookingforworkinasia wrote: |
| I don't think teaching English lit is an achievable career goal for me (even though I would probably really enjoy it), but I would be interested in teaching something like English composition or other specialized fields of English. |
Entry level work is not specialized. People have to learn to be ditch-diggers before they are construction workers or architects. I've been at this over a decade. Not a heckuva long time, but long enough to have taught in conversation school, private HS, private lessons to housewives, businessmen, and scientists/doctors, and now am in university. How many times have I actually had the chance to teach composition full-time? Zero.
HS had half a dozen native English teachers and 450 students per grade. We each taught about 18-20 lessons per week (I had the most varied lessons with 11-13 different ones in that 18-20). Staff relied on me heavily for grammar corrections and prep before they did lessons and when they checked homework and major exams. Did they ever give me a composition class? Nope.
Uni. I have taught 1 tech writing class now for 4 years and added one more this year. Otherwise, I teach reading, listening, international studies, presentation courses, and 4-skills' courses to undergrads and grad students. I proofread more science profs' papers than anyone and have done editing/proofreading/copyediting for over 15 years. FT composition teacher? They just aren't needed IMO. If you teach in a liberal arts school with journalism majors, maybe, but that's not a big bulls' eye to shoot for.
| Quote: |
| In terms of a decent gig, it would depend on a lot of things. Type of institution, students, reputability of the administration, living conditions, etc. Since I'll probably be interested in finding work right after school I won't be super picky, but I'm not particularly well informed about what opportunities will be like outside of Korea so I'm curious what others think. |
How much money do you want to save, and how much do you have to pay off per month? |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Is a BA in English Language+Lit counted as an unrelated degree? Wow.
What would be be the best degrees to have? |
Depends on where you are, to some extent, and what your degree consisted of, to some extent. But generally, yeah- a BA in English lit isn't a teaching qualification. Unless an applicant says otherwise, an employer doesn't have any reason to assume that there was any teaching/education component in this degree.
There may have been; it's the kind of degree a lot of people do to become high school English teachers in English speaking countries, so it's medium common to pursue a teaching license at the same time. If this is the case, it's certainly relevant. BUt since the OP hasn't mentioned it, I assumed it isn't the case.
Don't get me wrong- it may look better on an application than a BS in Chemistry, or even a BA in Psychology, for entry level work. But to go past entry level in most places, you need some language teaching specific qualifications.
For an EFL specific career, most folks actually don't have a related degree. THey get started! But if they stay at it, they'll want certs (like CELTA or other intensive introductory ELT courses), diplomas (Like DELTA) and in many cases eventually MAs. (in TESOL, Language teaching, applied linguistics or such.)
I studied theatre the first time I went to University. Nothing wrong with that.
But there's a limit, in most countries, to how far you'll go (or how good a job you'll be considered for) until you get some teacher training to go with it.
Best,
Justin |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: Future in Teaching |
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| lookingforworkinasia wrote: |
Hello,
I apologize if this is bordering on topics covered in other threads, but I was hoping for some input.
After a few years of teaching EFL here in Korea, I will be attending grad school in the fall. I will finish a M.S.S. degree at a top tier University in Europe, and will be in my early 30's after I finish. |
What's an M.S.S. degree? some sort of Master of Science? Master of software systems? Master of Social Service? (these last two came from a google search).
| Quote: |
After, I would like to return to Asia and teach here for a couple of more years, and I'm wondering what kind of options would be open for someone like me. Although my Master's degree wouldn't be related to TEFL, and wouldn't be from an English speaking Uni, I have a Bachelor's in English Language and Lit. from an English speaking University in Canada. |
An undergrad in English IS a related undergrad degree, when you come from an area in which education is a consecutive (or concurrent) area along with your degree. The only other things that could be related are linguistics or languages. But that's just the undergraduate degree. It doesn't mean a whole lot other than background, really. Some employers like it, but the reality is that an undergrad in literature isn't really any more useful than any other humanities undergrad. It's the professional training afterwards that is important (like, a relevant masters degree, or B.Ed / PGCE or possibly business training [if you want to be a business English teacher, then having some sort of qualification in marketing etc would be a big plus])
| Quote: |
I mention that because while EFL isn't really a subject of interest for me, I enjoy teaching enough to put up with a subject I'm not really passionate about. Obviously if I find a position teaching my major, that would take precedent.
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Have you even looked into what is actually studied in a masters degree in applied linguistics (TESOL)? It doesn't sound like you have ANY formal training (as in university training) in this whatsoever.
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How competitive do you think these qualifications will make me? |
As others have mentioned, you would be competing against newbies. |
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Montanaland
Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 60
Location: Bakken Oil Field
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:58 pm Post subject: Real World |
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The FACTS are that only 13-15% of the population even have graduate degrees to begin with.
(Y) as in you? would deffinetly make 3-4+ times more money than the average teacher if you got with an Oil&Gas company or some other legit company/industry.
The barrier-to-entry is black and white in education.... Ma in Tesol or certified. It is pathetic to hear how some folks that have certification gawk or squawk at someone who is trying to break into a third world teaching gig with an engineering or accounting degree.
You can CELTA for "fun" while you do a distance MA in Tesol...or better yet get grab a 80k job off of MOD EDIT while you complete that online hoop. |
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jpvanderwerf2001
Joined: 02 Oct 2003
Posts: 1117
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| You'll find a gig for sure. Now, whether you'll get big money for your qualifications is a different matter. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 6:26 am Post subject: |
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The FACTS are that only 13-15% of the population even have graduate degrees to begin with.
What population would that be? Montana, perhaps, but it's not typical in most parts of the world!! |
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nickpellatt
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 1522
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| jimi1999uk wrote: |
Is a BA in English Language+Lit counted as an unrelated degree? Wow.
What would be be the best degrees to have? |
I dont think its as unrelated as some...but a) Im not an employer and b) Im trying to convince myself my degree isnt unrelated  My reasoning for this is that the English language modules of my degree did cover language acquistion, phonology, corpus study and lots of analysis of descriptive grammar etc.
Id be quite confident of being able 'to sell' my unrelated degree to a prospective employer as being relevant and related. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:34 am Post subject: |
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I dont think its as unrelated as some...but a) Im not an employer and b) Im trying to convince myself my degree isnt unrelated My reasoning for this is that the English language modules of my degree did cover language acquistion, phonology, corpus study and lots of analysis of descriptive grammar etc.
Id be quite confident of being able 'to sell' my unrelated degree to a prospective employer as being relevant and related.
Well, not everywhere, though in some regions where demand is relatively high, yes probably.
I have done some hiring over the years, and the problem with candidates who have degrees indicating that they know something about the language is zero guarantee that the candidate will be able to convey that knowledge (and give students the space to try it out, make mistakes, and develop their own skills). This is about training in education and language together, and knowing something about one or the other facet isn't a huge leg up.
One of the worst-ever work colleagues I've had held an MA in English. An absolute grammar goddess, but her grammatical knowledge didn't translate to effective teaching. Students found her classes prescriptive, frustrating, and not supportive of their development of the language. |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
The FACTS are that only 13-15% of the population even have graduate degrees to begin with.
What population would that be? Montana, perhaps, but it's not typical in most parts of the world!! |
And besides, if you are talking about teaching, your sample group should really only be TEACHERS. Not too many construction workers have masters degrees. All doctors have graduate degrees. How many TEACHERS have graduate qualifications? An awful lot. |
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